dror@infmx.UUCP (Dror Matalon) (12/23/89)
Now that 386 boxes are getting to be really cheap I'm thinking of
getting the best of both worlds by buying one running Unix and Dos tasks under
it. I've been following this news group for a while and I'm beginning to wonder
whether it's a good idea. I'm quite technical seeing that I make a living
writing 'C' code under unix on SUN workstations. But I'm not sure that I want
to spend that much time at home hacking Kernels and fooling around with
device drivers. It's bad enough that I had to educate myself about MFM RLL
ESDI SCSI Interleave modes wait states motherboards.
I was thinking of buying a no name clone running at 25Mhz with 4 Megs
and a 120M RLL Seagate drive. Do I need to worry about competability issues?
How do I find out what drive and what controller I can use with what unix
(Before I buy all this stuff).
Should I just give up and maybe get deskview and run DOS under that?
Please, no religious wars I'm interested in finding out what people
in similar situation did and how it worked out.
Thanks
Dror
Dror Matalon Informix Software Inc.
{pyramid,uunet}!infmx!dror 4100 Bohannon drive
Menlo Park, Ca. 94025
415-926-6426
--
Dror Matalon Informix Software Inc.
{pyramid,uunet}!infmx!dror 4100 Bohannon drive
Menlo Park, Ca. 94025
415-926-6426cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (12/23/89)
In article <2910@infmx.UUCP>, dror@infmx.UUCP (Dror Matalon) writes: > I've been following this news group for a while and I'm beginning to wonder > whether it's a good idea. I'm quite technical seeing that I make a living > writing 'C' code under unix on SUN workstations. But I'm not sure that I want > to spend that much time at home hacking Kernels and fooling around with > device drivers. It's bad enough that I had to educate myself about MFM RLL > ESDI SCSI Interleave modes wait states motherboards. Whenever you watch a BBS/newsgroup discussion group you will always find the most of the discussions talk about problems the user's are having. Who cares that I have had no problems runnin 386/ix on my machine (unless, of course, there is something real strange about my machine). Normally you will have no problems running unix on most clones. The problems usually crawl in when you try to run some high performance, or little heard of peripheral. This is true for 386/ix, Xenix, SCO Unix, Bell Tech Unix (now Intel Unix), ESIX, Dell unix and probably most packages. If you really want to make sure that you get compatible hardware, you can order your hardware and os from the same vendor and require that they pre-load the os and run the burn in with your os. Vendors that do this may charge a little bit more than those that don't, but you save all the headaches of figuring which board uses which interrupt, i/o address, and memory address. Two companies that I know of that will do this are Dell and Tangent Computer Inc.. I'm sure there are many others so you shouldn't have a problem with it. > I was thinking of buying a no name clone running at 25Mhz with 4 Megs > and a 120M RLL Seagate drive. Do I need to worry about competability issues? > How do I find out what drive and what controller I can use with what unix > (Before I buy all this stuff). This is a concern, but not a major one. If you buy the stuff and load the OS yourself, MAKE SURE YOU buy the stuff from a vendor that will give you a 30 day no questions asked return policy (without any penalties/restocking fees). Again both of the companies I mentioned above provide this service and I'm sure they are not the only ones. The only extra thing you may want to remember is that Unix is a real memory hog (and gets worse as life goes on). You will want to buy as much memory as you can. Once you get to 8 meg on a single user system you get to the point of diminishing returns. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Conor P. Cahill uunet!virtech!cpcahil 703-430-9247 ! | Virtual Technologies Inc., P. O. Box 876, Sterling, VA 22170 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
tim@comcon.UUCP (Tim Brown) (12/24/89)
I would never buy unix specifically to run DOS. You buy unix because it is better and use the capability to run DOS to get over the addiction. Bottom line, what could you need DOS for that unix can't do better anyway? Put a litle more diplomatically, If you *really* want to be ablt to run DOS, with no strings attached in so far as compatibility is concerned, run DOS. Tim Brown | Computer Connection | (attmail or uunet)!comcon!tim |
ilan343@violet.berkeley.edu (12/24/89)
In article <2910@infmx.UUCP> dror@infmx.UUCP (Dror Matalon) writes: > I was thinking of buying a no name clone running at 25Mhz with 4 Megs >and a 120M RLL Seagate drive. Do I need to worry about competability issues? >How do I find out what drive and what controller I can use with what unix >(Before I buy all this stuff). I helped my brother to set up a similar system to run 386/ix. A DTK 20MHz + 5M + Seagate 120M RLL. Installing was easy. It needed very little adjustments from the defaults. I was careful to buy only hardware in Interactives list of "approved" hardware. It is a good idea to decide first on whose UNIX you will be using (Interactive, SCO or Everex) and stick to recommended hardware. The resulting system was very satisfactory, it certainly beats the hell of this 3B2 I am using right now.
dmocsny@uceng.UC.EDU (daniel mocsny) (12/24/89)
In article <1989Dec23.220436.14097@agate.berkeley.edu>, ilan343@violet.berkeley.edu writes: > I was careful to buy only hardware > in Interactives list of "approved" hardware. It is a good idea to > decide first on whose UNIX you will be using (Interactive, SCO or > Everex) and stick to recommended hardware. Would the kind folx at Interactive, Dell, SCO, ESIX, etc. be so kind as to post, at regular intervals, their latest lists of "approved" hardware? I do like the fine artwork in all the nice advertisements, but a bit of advance knowledge can save much weeping and gnashing of teeth. For example, I have discovered that Interactive generally runs like a dream on Compaq :-) but develops problems I never knew could exist on Northgate :-( I even sent my Northgate hardware back for inspection; the technician's report was "passes all Northgate diagnostics" and "we have no known incompatibilities". So now I have this nice box that runs DOS really well, but most of the time decides not to boot UNIX, even from a floppy. Ech. Dan Mocsny dmocsny@uceng.uc.edu
larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (12/24/89)
> Would the kind folx at Interactive, Dell, SCO, ESIX, etc. be so kind > as to post, at regular intervals, their latest lists of "approved" Dan, you can always call the vendors and ask for a copy of the "approved and tested hardware". I know I received one from SCO, Interactive and ESIX. Happy Holidays - -- Larry Snyder, Northern Star Communications, Notre Dame, IN uucp: root@nstar -or- ...!iuvax!ndmath!nstar!root
pcg@aber-cs.UUCP (Piercarlo Grandi) (12/25/89)
In article <2910@infmx.UUCP> dror@infmx.UUCP (Dror Matalon) writes:
Now that 386 boxes are getting to be really cheap I'm thinking of
getting the best of both worlds by buying one running Unix and Dos tasks under
it.
Great idea. I have done it, and never regretted it. A 386 is a very large
machine.
I was thinking of buying a no name clone running at 25Mhz with 4
Megs and a 120M RLL Seagate drive.
Excellent choice. a Couple of caveats: be sure that to upgrade the memory
to 8 megs you can do it on board or on the 32 bit board, *without* throwing
away the existing memory, and without using any 16 bit slot. I would advise
making sure it can be expanded to 8 megs just by pushing in a suitable number
of 1Megabit chips.
Don't use Seagate drives. My current favourites, notwithstanding the
difficulties of the manufacturer, are the Miniscribe 3085 (71 Megs RLL, 22
msec, half height) and the Miniscribe 3180E (160 Megs ESDI, 18 msec, half height),
that you can take home for about $570 and $1200 respectively. The 3085
has excellent odds of working RLL to 110 megs. I would recommend the Adaptec
2372B RLL controller, or even the WD1006 one. ESDI controllers, as long
as they are 1:1 and non caching, are ok.
You also absolutely want a 1/4" tape, either a 60MBytes or a 125 MBytes one
(the higher capacity ones are *expnsive*). Wangtek, Everex and Archive are
pretty good. Get a combo with a QIC-02 interface, not a QIC-36 one, they
tend to be cheaper. And if you lose the controller (I did :->), a QIC-02
one costs half a QIC-36 one.
On the other hand I seriously suggest that you consider using a SCSI
controller. You surely *need* a cartridge tape backup, and if you
anticipate running out of slots or IRQ lines, etc..., a SCSI controller can
drive as many discs and tapes as you want. The SCSI controllers are also
often (not the Seagate ones, that is) multithreading, and fast. There is no
question that *the* SCSI controller is the Adaptec 1542A. A SCSI controller
costs more than an RLL or ESDI one, but less than an RLL or ESDI controller
+ a tape controller. If I were to reconfigure my system now, I would go for
a SCSI controller. You have an ample choice of devices. The
Quantum PRO80S seems to be nice, and not too terribly expensive. Apparently
the best SCSI tape is the Archive Viper, but I have no idea of prices.
As to Unixes, get Everex if you have money problems, SCO Unix if you haven't
and want a lot of DOS compatibility, ISC if you want fast X11. Have a look
at SCO's open desktop (even if it has Ingres, which is the competition).
Make sure that the Unix you get can boot off a SCSI controller if you get
one.
As to video board, get an ATI VGA wonder. They usually come with a free bus
mouse (which saves you another slot, and money), and they are 16 bit (faster
in character mode or 256 color mode), and you can get a nice VGA gray scale
monitor to match.
If you can, get *two* discs instead of one with the same capacity. For example,
if you go RLL, get two Mitsubishi MR535 40/60 Megs, 25 msec, instead of
a single 120 Meg disc. If you balance the load, your system, even single user,
will be faster. With SCSI, having two discs is even better, because they
can overlap operations.
You also want to get a modem, because you want to join the net. Get a
Trailblazer, or if you really want, a 9600 baud fax modem.
As to laser printers, get an HP LJ IIP (low cost, low running cost).
--
Piercarlo "Peter" Grandi | ARPA: pcg%cs.aber.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Dept of CS, UCW Aberystwyth | UUCP: ...!mcvax!ukc!aber-cs!pcg
Penglais, Aberystwyth SY23 3BZ, UK | INET: pcg@cs.aber.ac.ukkarl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (12/25/89)
In article <511102@nstar.UUCP> larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) writes: >> Would the kind folx at Interactive, Dell, SCO, ESIX, etc. be so kind >> as to post, at regular intervals, their latest lists of "approved" > >Dan, you can always call the vendors and ask for a copy of the "approved >and tested hardware". I know I received one from SCO, Interactive and >ESIX. One other possibility that many seem to overlook: Buy both the OS and the machine from a vendor who has tested and will support the confiuration you wish to use. Sure, this might cost a few more bucks (usually not many however). It will, however, insure that the system works as intended when it is delivered. -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 708 566-8911], Voice: [+1 708 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"
karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (12/26/89)
In article <1557@aber-cs.UUCP> pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) writes: > >You also absolutely want a 1/4" tape, either a 60MBytes or a 125 MBytes one >(the higher capacity ones are *expnsive*). Wangtek, Everex and Archive are >pretty good. Get a combo with a QIC-02 interface, not a QIC-36 one, they >tend to be cheaper. And if you lose the controller (I did :->), a QIC-02 >one costs half a QIC-36 one. On the other hand, you can get an Archive Super Scorpion 125MB drive quite cheaply -- well under $1,000. They are in short supply, as they've been discontinued by the maker, but we still have a few (I think). Other vendors are probably the same there. >On the other hand I seriously suggest that you consider using a SCSI >controller. You surely *need* a cartridge tape backup, and if you >anticipate running out of slots or IRQ lines, etc..., a SCSI controller can >drive as many discs and tapes as you want. The SCSI controllers are also >often (not the Seagate ones, that is) multithreading, and fast. There is no >question that *the* SCSI controller is the Adaptec 1542A. A SCSI controller >costs more than an RLL or ESDI one, but less than an RLL or ESDI controller >+ a tape controller. If I were to reconfigure my system now, I would go for >a SCSI controller. You have an ample choice of devices. The >Quantum PRO80S seems to be nice, and not too terribly expensive. Apparently >the best SCSI tape is the Archive Viper, but I have no idea of prices. The 1542 Adaptec controller >is< nice. No gripes there. Archive Viper 150MB tape drives in SCSI format are well under $1k as well. They even have a >new< 525MB (yow!) drive. We're getting one of those on evaluation; they're not much more expensive than the 150MB models. The one drawback is that like most QIC drives, they can read but not write the lower density media. >As to Unixes, get Everex if you have money problems, SCO Unix if you haven't >and want a lot of DOS compatibility, ISC if you want fast X11. Have a look >at SCO's open desktop (even if it has Ingres, which is the competition). >Make sure that the Unix you get can boot off a SCSI controller if you get >one. I would say either ISC or SCO. Then again, I haven't played with ESIX. >As to video board, get an ATI VGA wonder. They usually come with a free bus >mouse (which saves you another slot, and money), and they are 16 bit (faster >in character mode or 256 color mode), and you can get a nice VGA gray scale >monitor to match. NO! The ATI bus mouse is not recognized here by either SCO or ISC's unix, although it does work fine under MSDOS. Neither ISC or SCO will support that configuration, and ATI doesn't know why it doesn't work (nor do SCO or ISC). It may be 90% Microsoft bus mouse compatible, but it's not 100%. >If you can, get *two* discs instead of one with the same capacity. For example, >if you go RLL, get two Mitsubishi MR535 40/60 Megs, 25 msec, instead of >a single 120 Meg disc. If you balance the load, your system, even single user, >will be faster. With SCSI, having two discs is even better, because they >can overlap operations. Correct. >As to laser printers, get an HP LJ IIP (low cost, low running cost). Especially if you don't mind doing a little hacking. I understand that the IIP can take LZW compressed input -- which will make the printer run god-awfully fast compared to the LJII. -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 708 566-8911], Voice: [+1 708 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"
chip@chinacat.Lonestar.ORG (Chip Rosenthal) (12/27/89)
karl@mcs.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: >>[re: HP LJ IIP printer] >Especially if you don't mind doing a little hacking. I understand that the >IIP can take LZW compressed input Hmmm...you might have something here. The IIP adds the command: # Set Compression Mode # # Determines how raster data is interpreted when transferred. # # <ESC> * b # M # # # = 0 - Unencoded # 1 - Run-length encoding # 2 - Tagged Image File Format (TIFF) rev. 4.0 I don't have the techinical manual for the IIP. If anybody out there does, how about posting some info on the compression formats? Another *very* nice thing about the IIP: it adds a "font rotate" command so that you don't need separate portrait and landscape fonts, and more fonts were stuffed into the unused space. If you are stuck with nroff, this is a good deal, because you can now get roman, italic, and bold in 10 chars/in and 12 chars/in courrier without buying additional cartridges. The thing is slooooowww (4 pages/min), but overall a good deal.