[comp.sys.ibm.pc] PC UNIces

rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (12/19/89)

In article <841@crash.cts.com>, jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
[discussion of nonexistence of PC BSD deleted]

> Why SCO and various other makers of PC-Unix license from AT&T instead of BSD
> is a mystery to me, but that's the way it works in the PC domain.

Well, let me try to remove the mystery.  You can like it or not; that's
your choice, but here's why:  They want to sell their systems.  It's really
that simple.

Because they want to sell their systems (preferably lots of them; helps
stay in business:-) they want to sell to businesses...or to resellers who
will sell to end users, but in that case the reseller is the business.
Now, try to put yourself in the wingtip oxfords and three-piece of a good
conservative businessman:  Do you buy the system based on a Real Product
from a Real Business like AT&T, one which will Surely Stand Behind Its
Products...or do you buy one based on some stuff out of a university, built
by some longhair kids who'll be gone as soon as they graduate?  (It's a
joke, son...don't bother flaming.  Yes, I know that, e.g., McKusick has
been at Berkeley far longer than the average senior technical person stays
at one job in industry.)

In other words, it's the perception that the system is a product that has
sold AT&T.  I suppose that another plausible view is that using an AT&T
system as a base offers more opportunity for a VAR to add value.
-- 
Dick Dunn     rcd@ico.isc.com    uucp: {ncar,nbires}!ico!rcd     (303)449-2870
   ...Never offend with style when you can offend with substance.

mbb@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (martin.b.brilliant) (12/20/89)

From article <1989Dec18.180148.2051@ico.isc.com>, by rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn):
> In article <841@crash.cts.com>, jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
>> Why SCO and various other makers of PC-Unix license from AT&T instead of BSD
>> is a mystery to me, but that's the way it works in the PC domain.
> 
> ... Because they want to sell their systems ... to businesses ... 
> ... businessman:  Do you buy the system based on a Real Product ...
> ... or do you buy one based on some stuff out of a university ...

I think it's simpler than that.  UNIX(R) is a registered trademark of
AT&T.  Berkeley doesn't own any kind of UNIX OS.  They improved it, but
AT&T owns it.  A user has to get the license from the owner, no matter
which version they use.  XePix (formerly Pixel) sold systems based on
BSD, but (I assume) they had to pay AT&T for the license.

Don't blame me, I only work here, and not for much longer, thank you.

M. B. Brilliant					Marty
AT&T-BL HO 3D-520	(201) 949-1858
Holmdel, NJ 07733	att!hounx!marty1 or marty1@hounx.ATT.COM
After retirement on 12/30/89 use att!althea!marty or marty@althea.UUCP

Disclaimer: Opinions stated herein are mine unless and until my employer
	    explicitly claims them; then I lose all rights to them.

jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) (12/24/89)

rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes:
>In article <841@crash.cts.com>, jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
>[discussion of nonexistence of PC BSD deleted]
>
>> Why SCO and various other makers of PC-Unix license from AT&T instead of BSD
>> is a mystery to me, but that's the way it works in the PC domain.
>
>Well, let me try to remove the mystery.  You can like it or not; that's
>your choice, but here's why:  They want to sell their systems.  It's really
>that simple.
>
>Because they want to sell their systems (preferably lots of them; helps
>stay in business:-) they want to sell to businesses...or to resellers who
>will sell to end users, but in that case the reseller is the business.
>Now, try to put yourself in the wingtip oxfords and three-piece of a good
>conservative businessman:  Do you buy the system based on a Real Product
>from a Real Business like AT&T, one which will Surely Stand Behind Its
>Products...or do you buy one based on some stuff out of a university, built
>by some longhair kids who'll be gone as soon as they graduate?  (It's a
>joke, son...don't bother flaming.  Yes, I know that, e.g., McKusick has
>been at Berkeley far longer than the average senior technical person stays
>at one job in industry.)
>
>In other words, it's the perception that the system is a product that has
>sold AT&T.  I suppose that another plausible view is that using an AT&T
>system as a base offers more opportunity for a VAR to add value.

You're forgetting something, Sun MicroSystems broke the rules and licensed
from BSD.  SunOS is all BSD 4.3 based with SysV compatable libraries.  And the
funny thing is that Sun hogs a lot of the market.  I find it funny that Jobs
is trying to crossbreed a Sun-3 and a Mac to make his NeXT box.  I also find
it funnier than CBM and Atari are making their own rendition of a Sun 3/80. 
Of course, I am biased since I work for a Sun VAR, but then again.  I also am
Pro-SCO, just wish they did everything more BSD.  Also, remember, BSD put
TCP/IP into Unix, AT&T did not.  Networking is a big business and if you are
going to need TCP/IP, why not have a kernel that supports it intrinsically? 
That's the exact logic that I think Sun followed and they damn near own the
NFS market.

It is a good explanation, nice try, but somebody broke the rules and came out
as a major player in the Unix workstation market.

Of course, nobody's going to give a damn after BSD and SysV are merged and
crossbred into the next generation Unix.
 
     // JCA

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cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (12/24/89)

In article <976@crash.cts.com>, jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes:
> It is a good explanation, nice try, but somebody broke the rules and came out
> as a major player in the Unix workstation market.

Yes, sun is a major player in the workstation market, but part of that is due
to thier system V compatability (since most govt agencies won't buy a system
that is not system V compatible).

Another point you may want to remember is that the workstation market is 
a very small segment of the total unix market.  Last I heard there are
more people using Xenix than all other versions of Unix combined.  (Me? 
No, I prefer to use real System V rel 3.2).



-- 
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cox@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Ben Cox) (12/25/89)

In article <976@crash.cts.com> jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
>That's the exact logic that I think Sun followed and they damn near own the
>NFS market.

I thought Sun *did* own the NFS market (having invented it and all)...

Ben Cox
ben@wri.COM
cox@jolnet.orpk.il.us (only until 1/8/90)

jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) (12/26/89)

cox@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Ben Cox) writes:
>In article <976@crash.cts.com> jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
>>That's the exact logic that I think Sun followed and they damn near own the
>>NFS market.
>
>I thought Sun *did* own the NFS market (having invented it and all)...

I'm taking into consideration that other companies produce an NFS product,
although there aren't many of them.
 
     // JCA

 /*
 **--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 ** Flames  : /dev/null                     | My opinions are exactly that,
 ** ARPANET : crash!pnet01!jca@nosc.mil     | mine.  Bill Gates couldn't buy
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poffen@molehill (Russ Poffenberger) (12/28/89)

In article <2542@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> ben@wri.COM writes:
>In article <976@crash.cts.com> jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
>>That's the exact logic that I think Sun followed and they damn near own the
>>NFS market.
>
>I thought Sun *did* own the NFS market (having invented it and all)...
>


Sun may have invented it, but NFS (and its underlying protocols, RPC and XDR)
are all in the public domain.


Russ Poffenberger               DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies       UUCP:   {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen
1601 Technology Drive		CIS:	72401,276
San Jose, Ca. 95110
(408)437-5254

ritchie@hpldola.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) (12/29/89)

>
>Sun may have invented it, but NFS (and its underlying protocols, RPC and XDR)
>are all in the public domain.
>

  Are there any PD implementations of NFS for PC's?
				Dave Ritchie

jpn@genrad.com (John P. Nelson) (12/29/89)

>Sun may have invented it, but NFS (and its underlying protocols, RPC and XDR)
>are all in the public domain.

I thought I should clarify this.  While RPC and XDR are indeed in the public
domain, NFS is NOT.  However, SUN will license NFS for a fairly reasonable
fee to anyone.

     john nelson

UUCP:	{decvax,mit-eddie}!genrad!jpn
smail:	jpn@genrad.com