[comp.sys.ibm.pc] Real 'OS/2 vs. Unix'

alien@cpoint.UUCP (Alien Wells) (01/06/90)

In article <1022@tuminfo1.lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de> rommel@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Kai-Uwe Rommel) writes:
>The most important feature of OS/2 above DOS is its memory protection
>and virtual memory management which makes it directly comparable to
>Unix.

If that is all you want, then it would seem to me that Windows 3.0 would be
enough for you ... ;-)  There is a lot more to OS/2 (and UNIX) over DOS ...

>... Also, take a look on OS/2's
>dynamic linking (ever heard about dynamic linking of Unix versions on
>286/386 class computers ?). 

From the UNIX System V/386 release 3.2 Programmer's Guide, Vol I  (p 3-30)
	As noted above, beginning with UNIX System V Release 3.0, shared
	libraries are supported. ... The reason why shared libraries are
	desirable is that they save space. ... When code in a shared library
	is modified, all programs that share the code use the new version
	the next time they are executed.
Sure sounds like dynamic linking to me.  This is from the manual for the 
standard 386 UNIX sytem V.  I am using ESIX system V which conforms to this
standard.

>And, the separate screen groups for
>concurrently executing processes are fine. Of course, PC versions of
>Unix also have this feature, but did you ever work on a Unix terminal
>(alpha) having two or more processes running on your terminal and all
>of them producing output to you ?

Again, in ESIX, I have 4 virtual 'consoles' which I can change between by 
hitting ALT 1, 2, 3, and 4.  I generally leave the super-user logged in on
1 (the 'system' console), a connection to the in-house VAX on 2, a connection
to the in-house UNIX server (which I am on now) on 3, and normal work on 4.
If this isn't enough, you can run X-Windows which gives a separate window
for each task being run.  Unfortunately, X is dog-slow compared with PM 
or Windows ... :-(

>Unix is not a bad system, I like it too, but OS/2 is developed several
>years later and therefore is more modern than Unix is. Unix was
>designed to run with terminals, when computers were expensive and there
>were many terminals connected to single machines over slow lines and
>the users were running mostly command line driven batch programs with
>stream in/output. But the PC has a memory mapped display with high
>speed access which allows very interactive programs.

Make sure you are comparing apples with apples (oops ... bad metaphor ...
am I about to be sued? ;-).  UNIX hasn't been sitting on its ass.  Also,
keep in mind that UNIX is the operating system that has been used for the
workstation market.  All those Suns, Apollos, etc have large bit-mapped
displays and are running single user!  In many ways PCs are just catching
up with UNIX in terms of single-user functionality.

>Well, I would say OS/2 and Unix are different systems for different
>purposes and Unix was ported to the PC (286, 386) because no other good
>time-sharing, virtual-memory OS was available. But they are still a bit
>uncomparable. ...

Unix has traditionally had two very good things going for it.  First, it
was (and still is) the most versatile operating system in terms of the
platforms it runs on.  It is a hardware independant 'standard'.  Second,
it was the 'cheapest real operating system' that you could get.

Personally, I thought that Unix had a major shot at unseating DOS when
the 286 architecture took over the PC world and IBM/Microsoft didn't have
an operating system that could take advantage of it.  (And yes, I will grant
you that 286 Unix is partially brain-dead, but the difference between 286 Unix
and 386 Unix pales in comparison to the difference between Dos and 286 Unix.)

At this point, Unix has a number of MAJOR problems, none of which you 
addressed:
    - Unix still hasn't settled down into a standard.  There are not only
	the two competing camps (OSF vs Unix International), but still a
	reasonable amount of dissention in the ranks of each.  The 
	Dos/Windows/OS/2 world has always had the advantage of a central
	player (Microsoft) that called the shots, kept the os standard,
	and moved the technology upscale (consider how much Dos->OS/2 has
	changed since 1981, and compare that with how much Unix has changed).
    - Unix is playing catch-up in the game of graphical shells.  This is
	what gave the Mac it's market share, and Windows has prompted a 
	major move of the PC market in that direction.  PM has been around
	for a while now, and apps are arriving.  Unix not only has standards
	issues (Next and IBM using Next-Step, OSF with Motif, and Sun with
	Open Look - although I will grant you that Motif seems to be winning)
	but the apps that will provide the consistent user interface are
	going to be a while coming.
    - Unix doesn't have anywhere near the application base that the PC world
	has.  I will grant you that OS/2 has been held back by the same
	problem, but there are a lot more people doing OS/2 apps than there
	are doing Unix apps.  Furthermore, with Mirrorz and Microsoft's 
	announcement that the next version of OS/2 will have a dynamic link
	library to automatically convert Windows 3.0 calls to OS/2 calls, 
	the migration path to OS/2 is much easier than the migration path 
	to Unix.
    - Finally, Unix lacks the binary standard that OS/2 has, and the resultant
	problems in distribution.  How many accountants and secretaries are
	going to want to configure and compile their applications before they
	can run them?  Not even their MIS/Micro Support Groups are going to
	want to do that.  I will grant you that there is now a binary standard
	for Unix on 386 machines, but Unix on 386 micros is a pretty small
	market to try to get software shrink-wrapped for.  After all, the
	whole point of Unix is that it is hardware independent ... this is
	its strength AND its weakness ...
-- 
--------|	Whether you can believe it or not, the universe is 
Alien   |   		laughing behind your back.	- Deteriorata
--------|     decvax!frog!cpoint!alien      bu-cs!mirror!frog!cpoint!alien

wayne@dsndata.uucp (Wayne Schlitt) (01/07/90)

In article <3364@cpoint.UUCP> alien@cpoint.UUCP (Alien Wells) writes:
> [ lots of stuff deleted, most of which i agree with... ]
> 
> At this point, Unix has a number of MAJOR problems, none of which you 
> addressed:
>       [ ... ]
>	and moved the technology upscale (consider how much Dos->OS/2 has
> 	changed since 1981, and compare that with how much Unix has changed).

ms/dos and os/2 are two completely different operating systems.  they
may have been created by the same people and one is meant to take over
the other's market, but they are really quite different.  (in the late
60's, ibm created a quick and dirty operating system called "DOS" so
that people and something to run until thier "real" operating system
came out.  20+ years later MVS/XA is _still_ trying to kill off
DOS/VSE... )

anyway, if you compare how dos has change from 1.0 through 4.0, or how
os/2 has change since it was first released, i would say that unix is
moving _faster_ than either of them.  

>  [ more stuff deleted... most of which i dont disagree on enough to
>    comment on ]
>
> -- 
> --------|	Whether you can believe it or not, the universe is 
> Alien   |   		laughing behind your back.	- Deteriorata
> --------|     decvax!frog!cpoint!alien      bu-cs!mirror!frog!cpoint!alien

-wayne