jdarcy@pinocchio.encore.com (Jeff d'Arcy) (12/24/89)
jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau): > There are easier graphics environments to program around than the Mac. The > moral of the story is that the Mac is hell on the software developer, but > heaven on the novice user. The point is not whether the Mac provides a good programming environment. What I saw in the post to which I responded was a hacker whining about how it took so much of his goddamn precious time to develop an application on the Mac (as compared to UNIX). There was no mention of which platform did more for the *users* in terms of training time or productivity, and that was what got me going. The "technological priesthood" to which I referred includes all programmers who fail to realize that the purpose of their work is to make it possible for non-programmers to do *their* jobs either better or faster. There are far too many techno-weenies out there who think that the users exist for the programmer's benefit, and who are more interested in playing with the "sexiest" technology than in producing anything useful. Many of the people who've expressed dislike or disdain for graphical interfaces have argued that they make programmers' lives more difficult, as if that were some sort of crime. The poor babies! How dare we demand that they take time away from their pursuit of the Ultimate Hack to make things easier for the mere mortal *users* who sign their paychecks? There's nothing wrong with hacking, but don't start crying when people expect you to *earn* your pay when you'd rather go play. For those who don't like to hear such criticism and can't read .sigs, I'd like to explain where I'm coming from. My business card says "Engineer", not "Manager" or "Sales Representative", and that's what I am. I'm not a student, I'm not a naive user, and I'm not an economist; I'm an ENGINEER. As such, I'm not saying these things from some semi-informed external perspective. I'm down in the trenches, hacking all sorts of code, and I damn well know how good it feels to pull off some nifty technical stunt. HOWEVER, I realize that nifty hacks are not what I'm paid for, nor should they be. I am paid to make systems *usable* and, like any true engineer (as opposed to outgrown hobbyists) I believe that the true measure of my ability is not how *amazing* my work is, but how *functional* it is. If I want amazement I should work on leading edge projects, not try to apply leading edge technology where it may not be appropriate. After all, who needs an FDDI interface to a 100 cps daisy-wheel printer? This is getting away from comp.sys.mac, and I apologize. I just think that *useability* is a very important part of what makes a Mac unique, and a lot of people don't seem to appreciate the power of that idea. Jeff d'Arcy OS/Network Software Engineer jdarcy@encore.com If Encore endorsed my opinions, they couldn't afford to pay me
malloy@nprdc.arpa (Sean Malloy) (12/24/89)
In article <10734@encore.Encore.COM> jdarcy@pinocchio.encore.com (Jeff d'Arcy) writes: > Many of the people >who've expressed dislike or disdain for graphical interfaces have argued >that they make programmers' lives more difficult, as if that were some sort >of crime. The poor babies! How dare we demand that they take time away >from their pursuit of the Ultimate Hack to make things easier for the mere >mortal *users* who sign their paychecks? There's nothing wrong with hacking, >but don't start crying when people expect you to *earn* your pay when you'd >rather go play. I don't think so. I believe that a GUI where 90% of the GUI interface is in ROM and asking for a named resource that doesn't exist crashes the system to the extent of requiring a cold boot is a clear example of a GUI that gets in the way of programmers doing their jobs. When a programming error in a call to the GUI that's easy to make uses wedging the machine as an error message there's something wrong with the GUI. Sean Malloy | "The Crystal Wind is the Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | Storm, and the Storm is Data, San Diego, CA 92152-6800 | and the Data is Life." malloy@nprdc.navy.mil | -- _Emerald Eyes_, D.K. Moran
nilesinc@well.UUCP (Avi Rappoport) (12/27/89)
I love programming the Mac. I don't know why, except that I hated writing a menu-driven system. Once I tried it I refused to do anything else! This is not to say that I'm _good_ at it, but I just get a great kick out of it. So let's do it this way: I'll program the Mac, and you won't. Fair? -- -- Help me justify my online bills: ask me EndNote questions, please! -- Avi Rappoport nilesinc@well.UUCP, Niles.Assoc on AppleLink 415-655-666 2000 Hearst, Berkeley, CA 94709
czmurek@drunivac.drew.edu (01/11/90)
In article <10734@encore.Encore.COM>, jdarcy@pinocchio.encore.com (Jeff d'Arcy) writes: > jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau): > > For those who don't like to hear such criticism and can't read .sigs, I'd > like to explain where I'm coming from. My business card says "Engineer", > not "Manager" or "Sales Representative", and that's what I am. I'm not a > student, I'm not a naive user, and I'm not an economist; I'm an ENGINEER. > As such, I'm not saying these things from some semi-informed external > perspective. I'm down in the trenches, hacking all sorts of code, and I > damn well know how good it feels to pull off some nifty technical stunt. > HOWEVER, I realize that nifty hacks are not what I'm paid for, nor should > they be. I am paid to make systems *usable* and, like any true engineer > (as opposed to outgrown hobbyists) I believe that the true measure of my > ability is not how *amazing* my work is, but how *functional* it is. If > I want amazement I should work on leading edge projects, not try to apply > leading edge technology where it may not be appropriate. After all, who > needs an FDDI interface to a 100 cps daisy-wheel printer? > Hail to the ENGINEER - talk about a weenie! For your information Sir, I would appreciate it if you would not make such gross steriotypes here! The MAC stinks when it comes to programming! I have developed under many environments (IBM, MAC, NeXT, etc.) and have found the MAC to be the most hostile. Try comparing that garbage to Interface Builder. I find it rather odd that in all the time that your beloved MAC has been around there has not been one truly inovative CASE tool developed for it. Don't blame that on us PROGRAMMERS. Since it is our job to develop the code here buddy, I think that we should be able to expect some measure of consideration from you ENGINEERS! If the MAC is so damn good then why haven't they moved it to a more coherent programming level rather than leave it up to us to make up for your sloppiness?! Maybe you don't know this since you are just an ENGINEER bucko, but programming is an art - not a factory job. If your work is not *amazing*, then you wasted your time- functionality comes with superb work. You have got it all wrong! It's time to climb down from your high horse - he's standing by sheer virtue of rigormortis alone. He's Dead son.... -Chris