GOLDSTN@MAINE.BITNET (Michael E. Goldstein) (12/29/89)
Is there a way to have three or four floppy drives in my 12mhz AT clone. Currently I have a WD Hard/Floppy 16 bit MFM controller which has the following attached to it. 1 - St251-1 Seagate 40 Meg Harddrive 1 - 360K 5-1/4" Floppy drive 1 - 1.44 Meg 3.5" FLoppy Drive I'd like to add a 5-1/4" 1.2 meg drive to this setup so that users can use this machine to transfer files back and forth between the different standard floppy size's. Could I accomplish this by replacing the 5-1/4" 360K drive with a 1.2 meg drive that would read and write both 1.2meg and 360K 5-1/4" floppies? Would 360K floppies written from the 1.2 meg drive be read and writable on a standard 360K drive in another PC? Any help will be appreciated. Mike Goldstein University of Maine at Presque Isle goldstn@maine.maine.edu goldstn@maine.bitnet UUNET!goldstn@maine.maine.edu
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (12/31/89)
In article <GOLDSTN.89362204630@MAINE.BITNET> GOLDSTN@MAINE.BITNET (Michael E. Goldstein) writes: | Is there a way to have three or four floppy drives | in my 12mhz AT clone. Western Digital makes hard disk only controllers and four drive floppy controllers. You need to use DRIVER.SYS for DOS. -- bill davidsen - sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX davidsen@sixhub.uucp ...!uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen "Getting old is bad, but it beats the hell out of the alternative" -anon
emmo@moncam.co.uk (Dave Emmerson) (01/03/90)
In article <GOLDSTN.89362204630@MAINE.BITNET+, GOLDSTN@MAINE.BITNET (Michael E. Goldstein) writes:
+ Is there a way to have three or four floppy drives
+ in my 12mhz AT clone.
+ [deleted]
+ Would 360K floppies written from the 1.2 meg drive be
+ read and writable on a standard 360K drive in another
+ PC?
It is possible, but only with the right set of boards. Don't ask me which
ones, it's a while since I did it.
You'll have some problems with moving disks between high density and
standard (double) density drives. DD disks can be read on HD drives, but
writing as 360K on the HD drive sometimes produces disks which can't be
read reliably (if at all in some cases) on a DD drive. Few DD drives can
successfully format HD disks even as 360K. Best to use the right disk in
the right drive, which was what you wanted to do anyway.
If your machine is like mine, and checks the floppy types every time you
boot, you could try using a couple of two pole changeover switches to
selectively enable/disable any combination. I've done that here at work,
but you'll need your own local hardware guru, there are too many variables
to give a general methodology on the net - sorry, I would if I could.
If you really want to do it, be prepared for some late nights.
Dave E.ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) (01/03/90)
In article <GOLDSTN.89362204630@MAINE.BITNET> GOLDSTN@MAINE.BITNET (Michael E. Goldstein) writes: >Would 360K floppies written from the 1.2 meg drive be >read and writable on a standard 360K drive in another >PC? >Mike Goldstein The 1.2 meg drive writes a narrower, lower density track than a 360k. The 360k drive has a *real* hard time trying to read disks written on a 1.2 meg drive. (Read: don't do it!) The fatter, higher density tracks of a 360k work fine on a 1.2 meg, though. PS: When I say higher or lower density, I refer to the magnetic field strength, not information density. -ted- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ted@helios.ucsc.edu | "The opinions are mine... (408)459-2110 | ...the facts are public domain." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
steve@wintermute.ucsd.edu ({Darkavich}) (01/04/90)
We have had success here with a board by AMS that does four floppy and 2 hard drives for an AT. It cost here about $145 dollars. Don't let the dealers tell you that there is no such thing because we are using one as I speak. Steve misrack smisrack@ucsd.edu
ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) (01/04/90)
In article <10767@ucsd.Edu>, steve@wintermute.ucsd.edu ({Darkavich}) writes: > > We have had success here with a board by AMS that does four floppy and 2 > hard drives for an AT. It cost here about $145 dollars. Don't let the > dealers tell you that there is no such thing because we are using one as I > speak. I've just gone through a whole Computer Shopper, cover-to-cover. My primary search was for a low-cost 8-Mhz 80287 ($159), but my secondary search was for a simple floppy controller card. A decent find turns out to be an NCL card, for the AT. Two floppies on the card, for $45. This comes from Gems Computers. Also, memory boards: Everex RAM-3000 (3MB) for $95, RAM-10000 (10MB) for $145. Does anyone have the Everex boards? Are they LIM 4.0 compatible? -- Eric Sheppard Georgia Tech | "Of course the US Constitution isn't Atlanta, GA | perfect; but it's a lot better than what ARPA: ce1zzes@prism.gatech.edu | we have now." uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!ce1zzes
jec@nesac2.att.com (John Carter ATLN SADM) (01/04/90)
In article <10152@saturn.ucsc.edu>, ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) writes: ] In article <GOLDSTN.89362204630@MAINE.BITNET> GOLDSTN@MAINE.BITNET (Michael E. Goldstein) writes: ] ]Would 360K floppies written from the 1.2 meg drive be ] ]read and writable on a standard 360K drive in another ] ]PC? ] ]Mike Goldstein ] The 1.2 meg drive writes a narrower, lower density track than a 360k. ] The 360k drive has a *real* hard time trying to read disks written ] on a 1.2 meg drive. (Read: don't do it!) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry, but I can't agree with this ^^^^^^. I've been developing in-house software on an AT class machine for over a year. I distribute that software on 360K floppies which are INITAILLY FORMATTED and written in the 1.2 meg drive. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My users have an assortment of machines (several flavors of AT&T, plus Compaq and AST, some with 360k and some with 1.2meg floppies) and I have had no problems with the distribution disks. Please note that the most frequent source of problems is swapping 360K floppies BETWEEN 1.2meg and 360k drives. The problems occur when: Floppy is written to in a 360k drive, then written to in a 1.2meg drive. The narrower 1.2meg head writes "down the middle" of the track on the 360k drive, leaving a magnetic spaghetti which may (or may not) be readable on the 1.2meg drive but probably won't be readable on the 360k drive. 360k floppy rules to live by: 1) format in 360K, write in 360k, read in either 2) format in 1.2meg, write in 1.2meg, read in either 3) format in either, write in 360k, read in either 4) format in 360k, write in 1.2meg, toss a coin 5) format in either, write in 360k then write in 1.2meg, bulkerase & reformat This has worked reliably for me. Flames to /dev/null or NUL or NUL or the bit bucket or the chad cup. ^^^^^^^^ What? You don't know what chad is? You never wrote endless loop tapes for repetitive operations on a TeleType Model 35? Poor child! How meager your education has been :-( -- USnail: John Carter, AT&T, 401 W. Peachtree, FLOC 2932-6, Atlanta GA 30308 Video: ...att!nesac2!jec ...attmail!jecarter Voice: 404+581-6239 The machine belongs to the company. The opinions are mine.
mlord@bmers58.UUCP (Mark Lord) (01/04/90)
In article <4597@hydra.gatech.EDU> ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: >Also, memory boards: Everex RAM-3000 (3MB) for $95, RAM-10000 (10MB) for $145. >Does anyone have the Everex boards? Are they LIM 4.0 compatible? I once had an Everex RAM-3000 board. It claimed to be LIM 4.0, but as near as I could tell it was LIM 3.2 hardware with 4.0 software drivers. Desqview could not make good use of it, neither could windows 286. The card is a great way to add extra EXTENDED memory to a 286/386 though.. (cheap). -- +----------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Mark S. Lord | Hey, It's only MY opinion. | | ..!utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!mlord%bmers58 | Feel free to have your own.| +----------------------------------------+----------------------------+
ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) (01/04/90)
In article <172@nesac2.att.com> jec@nesac2.att.com (John Carter ATLN SADM) writes: >In article <10152@saturn.ucsc.edu>, ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) writes: >] The 1.2 meg drive writes a narrower, lower density track than a 360k. >] The 360k drive has a *real* hard time trying to read disks written >] on a 1.2 meg drive. (Read: don't do it!) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Sorry, but I can't agree with this ^^^^^^. > >I've been developing in-house software on an AT class machine for over a year. >I distribute that software on 360K floppies which are INITAILLY FORMATTED and >written in the 1.2 meg drive. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Well, as they say, you can't argue with success. I don't know why you can, but I know many can't. We have tried formatting a 360k on a 1.2m, copying files to it, then reading those file in another computer which only has a 360k drive. The 360k didn't even see it as a DOS disk. If people want to try this, I guess I would say they should test it carefully before trusting it. -ted- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ted@helios.ucsc.edu | "The opinions are mine... (408)459-2110 | ...the facts are public domain." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) (01/05/90)
In article <4597@hydra.gatech.EDU> ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: >In article <10767@ucsd.Edu>, steve@wintermute.ucsd.edu ({Darkavich}) writes: >Also, memory boards: Everex RAM-3000 (3MB) for $95, RAM-10000 (10MB) for $145. >Does anyone have the Everex boards? Are they LIM 4.0 compatible? I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, *not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. -- Dick Flanagan, W6OLD, CFII, CFIG Cherokee 235 N9212W UUCP: ...!uunet!slvblc!dick GEnie: FLANAGAN Internet: slvblc!dick@uunet.UU.NET POB 155, Ben Lomond, CA 95005
darcy@druid.uucp (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) (01/06/90)
In article <88@slvblc.UUCP> dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) writes: > >I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, >*not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. This is almost true. Although expanded memory was originally designed as a hardware bank switching scheme, the LIM spec allows any sort of memory to be used as expanded. There are many programs that allow any type of extended memory to be used as expanded and I believe that Everex includes one with the RAM-3000. This is the LIM support referred to. As a side note I once used a program which turned a disk file into LIM expanded memory. It was very slow of course but it was useful for developing a program which was destined to use EMS without having to stuff the extra memory in my development machine. Other than speed it worked perfectly. I think it was called Above Disc. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain (darcy@druid) | Thank goodness we don't get all D'Arcy Cain Consulting | the government we pay for. West Hill, Ontario, Canada | No disclaimers. I agree with me |
poffen@molehill (Russ Poffenberger) (01/06/90)
In article <1119@bmers58.UUCP> mlord@bmers58.UUCP (Mark Lord) writes: >In article <4597@hydra.gatech.EDU> ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: >>Also, memory boards: Everex RAM-3000 (3MB) for $95, RAM-10000 (10MB) for $145. >>Does anyone have the Everex boards? Are they LIM 4.0 compatible? > >I once had an Everex RAM-3000 board. It claimed to be LIM 4.0, but as near >as I could tell it was LIM 3.2 hardware with 4.0 software drivers. Desqview >could not make good use of it, neither could windows 286. The card is a great >way to add extra EXTENDED memory to a 286/386 though.. (cheap). You are right about the RAM3000 being LIM 3.2 hardware with 4.0 LIM software emulation. Windows 286 CAN use this type of memory, I know, I did it. I ended up getting my money back on it though because it was incompatible with my system, it would give errors randomly, crash the system occassionally, etc. I ended up getting an intel AboveBoard which works great. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
poffen@molehill (Russ Poffenberger) (01/06/90)
In article <88@slvblc.UUCP> dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) writes: >In article <4597@hydra.gatech.EDU> ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: >>In article <10767@ucsd.Edu>, steve@wintermute.ucsd.edu ({Darkavich}) writes: >>Also, memory boards: Everex RAM-3000 (3MB) for $95, RAM-10000 (10MB) for $145. >>Does anyone have the Everex boards? Are they LIM 4.0 compatible? > >I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, >*not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. Wrong, the Everex RAM-3000 supports LIM 3.2 in Hardware and now has a driver to support LIM 4.0 in software. I bought one only to find that it was incompatible with my AT clone (and at two other clones at the store where I bought it), but when it did work (it was random errors) Windows/286 was quite happy with it's LIM 4.0 memory. Of all the Everex products I have (modem, I/O card, 40Meg tape, RAM-3000) the RAM-3000 was the only one I have EVER had any trouble with. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) (01/06/90)
In article <88@slvblc.UUCP>, dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) writes: > >Does anyone have the Everex boards? Are they LIM 4.0 compatible? > > I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, > *not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. Thanks for the info. I laughed at many of the ads appearing in the Shopper. Many seem to be poor English translations, complete with misspellings of the product names. It's sad to see a distributor trying to promote a wide range of products when it doesn't even know what the products do. I can't remember the name of one such company, but it says the Everex boards RAM-3000 and RAM-10000 both are LIM 4.0 compatible! That may rightly be called deception, but I think it's just ignorance. It reminds me of the problems experienced at Radio Shack. Salespeople there are not adequately informed about the products. Those who are do not stay there very long. Eric, tinkerer-at-large -- Eric Sheppard Georgia Tech | "Of course the US Constitution isn't Atlanta, GA | perfect; but it's a lot better than what ARPA: ce1zzes@prism.gatech.edu | we have now." uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!ce1zzes
ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) (01/06/90)
In article <88@slvblc.UUCP>, dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) writes: > I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, > *not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. Also, how well do they work? I'm considering getting a few of them, but if they don't work well with our software, I would be wasting money. Primarily used with Windows/286, Excel, Lotus, Word Perfect, MathCad, AutoCad, and a few other memory-hungry applications. Eric, tinkerer-at-large -- Eric Sheppard Georgia Tech | "Of course the US Constitution isn't Atlanta, GA | perfect; but it's a lot better than what ARPA: ce1zzes@prism.gatech.edu | we have now." uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!ce1zzes
poffen@molehill (Russ Poffenberger) (01/07/90)
In article <1990Jan5.171736.15733@druid.uucp> darcy@druid.UUCP (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) writes: >In article <88@slvblc.UUCP> dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) writes: >> >>I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, >>*not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. > >This is almost true. Although expanded memory was originally designed as >a hardware bank switching scheme, the LIM spec allows any sort of memory >to be used as expanded. There are many programs that allow any type of >extended memory to be used as expanded and I believe that Everex includes >one with the RAM-3000. This is the LIM support referred to. Unfortunately you are both wrong. The Everex RAM-3000 DOES support LIM 3.2 in hardware. It now includes a driver to support LIM 4.0 in software through a driver. >As a side note I once used a program which turned a disk file into LIM >expanded memory. It was very slow of course but it was useful for developing >a program which was destined to use EMS without having to stuff the extra >memory in my development machine. Other than speed it worked perfectly. >I think it was called Above Disc. Be careful with these packages, even one that emulates LIM in extended are VERY slow, we are talking at least an order of magnitude slower than *true* hardware LIM. Also, if you are only using a package like turbo 'C' that can use 64K of expanded memory (I wish they could use more), the driver to emulate LIM in extended memory or disk requires ~64K of conventional memory for it's mapping tables. So if you only need 64K or less EMS, it is a loser. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
poffen@molehill (Russ Poffenberger) (01/07/90)
In article <4635@hydra.gatech.EDU> ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: >In article <88@slvblc.UUCP>, dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) writes: >> I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, >> *not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. As has been re-iterated here before, the RAM-3000 DOES support LIM 3.2 in hardware, and now has a driver for LIM 4.0 >Also, how well do they work? I'm considering getting a few of them, but if >they don't work well with our software, I would be wasting money. Primarily >used with Windows/286, Excel, Lotus, Word Perfect, MathCad, AutoCad, and a few >other memory-hungry applications. > I had trouble with a RAM-3000 in my AT clone (PCC motherboard, Phoenix BIOS). It would give random parity errors and lock up the system. IT did this with TWO different boards in TWO different systems (not the same model of system either) I therefore think that there may be some incompatibilities with the RAM-3000 in some systems. I would suggest an Intel Aboveboard. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
phil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (01/09/90)
In article <1990Jan5.171736.15733@druid.uucp> darcy@druid.UUCP (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) writes: |In article <88@slvblc.UUCP> dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) writes: |> |>I have two of the Everex RAM-3000 boards. They are EXTended memory boards, |>*not* EXPanded memory boards. LIM in any form is not supported on the board. | |This is almost true. Although expanded memory was originally designed as |a hardware bank switching scheme, the LIM spec allows any sort of memory |to be used as expanded. There are many programs that allow any type of |extended memory to be used as expanded and I believe that Everex includes |one with the RAM-3000. This is the LIM support referred to. Well, you're wrong. I wouldn't hire you as a consultant. Think of your image before posting garbage information. -- Phil Ngai, phil@diablo.amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil
darcy@druid.uucp (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) (01/10/90)
In article <28700@amdcad.AMD.COM> phil@pepsi.AMD.COM (Phil Ngai) writes: >In article <1990Jan5.171736.15733@druid.uucp> darcy@druid.UUCP (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) writes: >| >|This is almost true. Although expanded memory was originally designed as >|a hardware bank switching scheme, the LIM spec allows any sort of memory >|to be used as expanded. There are many programs that allow any type of >|extended memory to be used as expanded and I believe that Everex includes >|one with the RAM-3000. This is the LIM support referred to. > >Well, you're wrong. I wouldn't hire you as a consultant. Think of your >image before posting garbage information. > >-- >Phil Ngai, phil@diablo.amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil How about instead of a personal attack you simply explain what you disagree with in the above statement. I have installed a number of Everex boards with expanded memory emulators and they have worked as I have described. Maybe you should work on your own abrasive image before you post. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain (darcy@druid) | Thank goodness we don't get all D'Arcy Cain Consulting | the government we pay for. West Hill, Ontario, Canada | No disclaimers. I agree with me |
dwight@f1.n515.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Ron Dwight) (01/10/90)
Hi Eric, > Also, how well do they work? I'm considering getting a few > of them, but if > they don't work well with our software, I would be wasting > money. Primarily > used with Windows/286, Excel, Lotus, Word Perfect, MathCad, > AutoCad, and a few > other memory-hungry applications. I have used the RAM-10000 cards for a while and it is a terrific board. Uses 1Mbit chips for a total of 10Mb and works up to 10Mhz. One problem is operating with bus-mastering cards in the same machine. The RAM-10000 card has a wiring error which causes problems with another Bus mastering controller card, such as Adaptek 1542A SCSI controller. There is a fix, You have to cut a trace on the RAM-10000, but other than that it's a great card. Works superb with DESQview on a 386 machine. Cheers, -- Ron Dwight - via FidoNet node 2:515/801 UUCP: ...!santra!casino!1!dwight INTERNET: dwight@f1.n515.z2.FIDONET.ORG
phil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (01/13/90)
In article <1990Jan9.204148.2627@druid.uucp> darcy@druid.UUCP (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) writes: | |How about instead of a personal attack you simply explain what you disagree |with in the above statement. I have installed a number of Everex boards |with expanded memory emulators and they have worked as I have described. If you had read the manual for the 3000, you would have seen references to page register IO addresses and page frame memory addresses. In fact, even if you hadn't read the manual but had installed the 3000 you would have seen the same thing. Since you obviously have never seen, used, or read about the 3000, why do you 1) waste net bandwidth 2) mislead people with misinformation 3) slander someone's product? -- Phil Ngai, phil@diablo.amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil Peace through strength.