phil@pepsi.amd.com (02/10/90)
I just heard that there's a shortage of these parts and the price has
been rising. Anyone like to comment on this?
--
Phil Ngai, phil@amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil
When guns are outlawed, only governments will have guns.chao@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Chia-Chi Chao) (02/11/90)
In article <29108@amdcad.AMD.COM> phil@pepsi.amd.com () writes: >I just heard that there's a shortage of these parts and the price has >been rising. Anyone like to comment on this? A family friend who is a computer dealer also told me about the shortage just today. It seems that Intel/IBM is cutting back production to raise the prices.
wayne@dsndata.uucp (Wayne Schlitt) (02/12/90)
In article <21986@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> chao@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Chia-Chi Chao) writes: > In article <29108@amdcad.AMD.COM> phil@pepsi.amd.com () writes: > >I just heard that there's a shortage of these parts and the price has > >been rising. Anyone like to comment on this? > > A family friend who is a computer dealer also told me about the shortage just > today. It seems that Intel/IBM is cutting back production to raise the prices. umm... is it possible that intel has just been successful int it's promotion of the 386sx as a replacement for the 286 and now there is a shortage because so many people are buy 386sx's? with 486's just coming out, they are becoming the "premium" computer and the 386's have little hope but to drop in price. the 286 is going to have to become _real_ cheap for people to keep buying them over 386sx's. -wayne
knotts@hpl-opus.HP.COM (Tom Knotts) (02/13/90)
>with 486's just coming out, they are becoming the "premium" computer >and the 386's have little hope but to drop in price. the 286 is going >to have to become _real_ cheap for people to keep buying them over >386sx's. I hate to admit to being uninformed, but I've been wondering what is the difference between the 386 and 486. Can one eventually upgrade a 386 machine to a 486? tom
norsk@sequent.UUCP (Doug Thompson) (02/14/90)
In article <63320008@hpl-opus.HP.COM> knotts@hpl-opus.HP.COM (Tom Knotts) writes: > >>with 486's just coming out, they are becoming the "premium" computer >>and the 386's have little hope but to drop in price. the 286 is going >>to have to become _real_ cheap for people to keep buying them over >>386sx's. > >I hate to admit to being uninformed, but I've been wondering what is the >difference between the 386 and 486. Can one eventually upgrade a 386 machine >to a 486? > >tom Don't worry, most of us are also, but don't admit it. The 486 runs the same programs as the 386 and has added 6 instructions, these are: Byte swap (BSWAP) will move the bytes in the operand around from little indian to big indian and vice versa Exchange-and-Add (XADD) good for multiprocessing operation Compare-and-Exchange(CMPXCHG) dittio Invalidate Data Cache (INVD) self evident Write-back and Invalidate Data Cache (WBINVD) Invalidate TLB Entry (INVLPG) these instructions add some needed functionality to the 486 for system level operations. The 486 has on-chip a 487 processor and 8k of cache memory. RISC type of technology has been used to reduce the number of cycles needed to executed one instruction, thus allowing it to have a higher MIPS rating than the 386. A 486 25Mhz PC, as far as I see in the rates is 10-15 MIPS. -- Douglas Thompson UUCP: ..{tektronix,ogicse,uunet}!sequent!norsk Sequent Computer Systems Phone: (503) 526-5727 15450 SW Koll Parkway !"The scientist builds to learn;the engineer learns in Beaverton OR 97006 !order to build." Fred Brooks
dlow@hpspcoi.HP.COM (Danny Low) (02/14/90)
>I hate to admit to being uninformed, but I've been wondering what is the >difference between the 386 and 486. Can one eventually upgrade a 386 machine >to a 486? >tom A 486 is just a 386 with all the support chips built into the chip. For example the numeric coprocessor and a memory cache are include in the chip. As for upgrading, that depends on whether your 386 was designed for upgrading. There is a major difference in the motherboard design between the two chips precisely because one has all support chips built in while the other needs the chips on the motherboard. In theory you could upgrade regardless but the difficulty increases significantly if the 386 is not specifically designed for upgrading. Danny Low "Question Authority and the Authorities will question You" Valley of Hearts Delight, Silicon Valley HP SPCD dlow%hpspcoi@hplabs.hp.com ...!hplabs!hpspcoi!dlow
cs4g6ag@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Stephen M. Dunn) (02/14/90)
In article <63320008@hpl-opus.HP.COM> knotts@hpl-opus.HP.COM (Tom Knotts) writes:
$I hate to admit to being uninformed, but I've been wondering what is the
$difference between the 386 and 486. Can one eventually upgrade a 386 machine
$to a 486?
The 486 incorporates the functions of the 386 and the 387 into one
chip. To software, it looks pretty much like just a 386 with a 387;
however, the whole thing has been redesigned to be significantly
faster, employing some of the RISC philosophy. Most common operations
have been trimmed down to one or two clock cycles, so a 33 MHz 486
will be significantly faster than a 33 MHz 386+387 combination (how
much, I don't know ... I'm sure someone else can give benchmark
figures if they're wanted).
For most 386 machines, the only way to upgrade would be to buy
a 486 plug-in board (I don't think any are available yet, but I
could be wrong, and I'm sure that there will be several before
too long). Some machines, however, were designed so that the
CPU can be upgraded (ALR, for example, has a 286 that can be
upgraded to a 386SX or a 486).
--
Stephen M. Dunn cs4g6ag@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
<std_disclaimer.h> = "\nI'm only an undergraduate!!!\n";
****************************************************************************
I Think I'm Going Bald - Caress of Steel, Rushray@philmtl.philips.ca (Raymond Dunn) (02/15/90)
In referenced article, (Stephen M. Dunn) writes: >$I hate to admit to being uninformed, but I've been wondering what is the >$difference between the 386 and 486. Can one eventually upgrade a 386 machine >$to a 486? > >The 486 incorporates the functions of the 386 and the 387 into one chip. >...... Most common operations >have been trimmed down to one or two clock cycles, so a 33 MHz 486 >will be significantly faster than a 33 MHz 386+387 combination In fact a 25Mhz 486 (the only speed currently available in "production") has about the same performance as a 33Mhz 386. The 486 is the first production IC with over 1 Million transistors (I torched the cover off one a week or two ago, and counted 'em.... - actually I *did* take the cover off one, its impressive!!) -- Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ray@philmtl.philips.ca Philips Electronics Ltd. | ..!{uunet|philapd|philabs}!philmtl!ray 600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext : 2347 (Phonemail) St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | FAX : (514) 744-6455 TLX : 05-824090
ralf@b.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Ralf Brown) (02/17/90)
In article <1031@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Raymond Dunn) writes: }The 486 is the first production IC with over 1 Million transistors (I Gee, I always thought that 1 megabit DRAMs had at least 1,048,576 transistors.... -- {backbone}!cs.cmu.edu!ralf ARPA: RALF@CS.CMU.EDU FIDO: Ralf Brown 1:129/46 BITnet: RALF%CS.CMU.EDU@CMUCCVMA AT&Tnet: (412)268-3053 (school) FAX: ask DISCLAIMER? | _How_to_Prove_It_ by Dana Angluin 24. by appeal to intuition: What's that?| Cloud-shaped drawings frequently help here.
cs4g6ag@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Stephen M. Dunn) (02/27/90)
In article <1640057@hpspcoi.HP.COM> dlow@hpspcoi.HP.COM (Danny Low) writes:
$A 486 is just a 386 with all the support chips built into the chip.
It's a lot more than just a 386 with the support chips built in. The
thing was redesigned using RISC philosophy so that most common
instructions execute very quickly, so that a 33 MHz 486 will run a lot
faster than a 33 MHz 386.
$For example the numeric coprocessor and a memory cache are include in the
$chip. As for upgrading, that depends on whether your 386 was designed
$for upgrading. There is a major difference in the motherboard design
[...]
Yup ... the whole motherboard has to be replaced unless it was
designed for upgrading, and very few machines are designed for upgrading.
--
Stephen M. Dunn cs4g6ag@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
<std_disclaimer.h> = "\nI'm only an undergraduate!!!\n";
****************************************************************************
I Think I'm Going Bald - Caress of Steel, Rush