wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl (Peter Peters) (02/07/90)
Here's a question for the wizards. A while ago I built a hard disk into my pc-compatible (philips P3100). The disk is a seagate st138R controlled by an OMTI controller. When booting the system, especially when switching it on, its starts up slooooow (real slow i.e.). It seems to access the disk quite quick after (re)-boot then waits a while, after that starts to do what it's expected to do, i.e. starting to read stuff from disk and booting. Anyone gto any bright idea's what might be causing this slow start. Any solutions ?? Thanks in advance, Peter. -- | Peter Peters | UUCP : wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl | | Eindhoven University of Technology (TUE) | SURF : heithe5::wsdcpp | | Dept. of Mathematics and Computer Science | VHF : PA0PPE | | Disclaimer : I said WHAT ??? | TUE : HG 8.86 tst. 4283 |
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (02/08/90)
wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl (Peter Peters) writes: >Here's a question for the wizards. >A while ago I built a hard disk into my pc-compatible (philips P3100). >The disk is a seagate st138R controlled by an OMTI controller. >When booting the system, especially when switching it on, its starts >up slooooow (real slow i.e.). It seems to access the disk quite quick >after (re)-boot then waits a while, after that starts to do what it's >expected to do, i.e. starting to read stuff from disk and booting. One of my users had this problem on a 40MB Compaq 386/16 (CDC drive). I swapped the disk and the problem went away. Half a year later, his system would start to boot, then quit. It had me stumped. So I did the usual thing of disemboweling the PC to see what happened. I took out all unnecessary cards and started the machine. Worked fine. All of his slots had been full. He had two 40 MB drives and two floppies. I put the boards back in and it wouldn't start. With all boards in, I unplugged one 40 MB drive. Worked. Hooked it back up - no workee. Sounded like a weak power supply to me. Swapped supplies with another Compaq with fewer goodies. They've both been working fine for months. I suspect the original disk that was slow to start wasn't getting enough power to spin it up to speed quickly. It took about 15 seconds to get started. Don't know if this helps, but your symptoms sounded just like mine. -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@wind55.seri.gov Senior Computer Engineer VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl (Peter Peters) (02/08/90)
> marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) writes : > > [stuff deleted] > > I suspect the original disk that was slow to start wasn't getting > enough power to spin it up to speed quickly. It took about 15 seconds > to get started. > > Don't know if this helps, but your symptoms sounded just like mine. > -- To clarify my problem I posted this answer to the group and not directly to Marshall, this should be a better description of the problem I reported before. Any help is still very welcome.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for your reply Marshall. A weak power supply sure is a possibility, although I suspect thats NOT the trouble in my machine. First of all the hard disk (which is a ST238, NOT a 138 as I stated before) is the only expansion I have. Second : even if the disk is up to speed the system starts slow. I'm talking about real slooow starting. I'll be more specific : After power on the machine starts to do its thing until the hard-disk bios message is displayed. After that all is silent for 30-40 seconds in which nothing seems to happen (no disk access that for sure). When that time has passed the system continues to boot (reading stuff from disk and bringing itself up). This sequence happens also when re-booting with ctrl-alt-del, so it's not a power-on problem, ergo : even if the disk is up to speed the problem occurrs. I suspect it's something in the bios-extension of the hard disk, but I'm not sure. What the hell can take 30-40 seconds?? Peter. | Peter Peters | UUCP : wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl | | Eindhoven University of Technology (TUE) | SURF : heithe5::wsdcpp | | Dept. of Mathematics and Computer Science | VHF : PA0PPE | | Disclaimer : I said WHAT ??? | TUE : HG 8.86 tst. 4283 | -- | Peter Peters | UUCP : wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl | | Eindhoven University of Technology (TUE) | SURF : heithe5::wsdcpp | | Dept. of Mathematics and Computer Science | VHF : PA0PPE | | Disclaimer : I said WHAT ??? | TUE : HG 8.86 tst. 4283 |
berger@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (02/10/90)
The memory check on the IBM PC took a while, and left a blank screen meanwhile. Some clone bios chips don't handle the ctrl-alt-del reboot properly and start from the beginning. Mike Berger, Univ. of Il. Dept. of Statistics berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
mark.freedman@canremote.uucp (MARK FREEDMAN) (02/10/90)
wl>After power on the machine starts to do its thing until the hard-disk
wl>bios message is displayed. After that all is silent for 30-40 seconds
wl>in which nothing seems to happen (no disk access that for sure). When
wl>that time has passed the system continues to boot (reading stuff from
wl>disk and bringing itself up).
wl>This sequence happens also when re-booting with ctrl-alt-del, so it's
wl>not a power-on problem, ergo : even if the disk is up to speed the
wl>problem occurrs. I suspect it's something in the bios-extension of the
wl>hard disk, but I'm not sure. What the hell can take 30-40 seconds??
The IBM PC runs a memory check when powered up and, if the "warm
boot" flag isn't set, when rebooted.
Is it possible that your system is doing its POST ?
(Power On Self Test)
btw The Seagate ST238 has fairly high current draw when starting.
Some PC's with small power supplies COULD have problems.
mark.freedman@canremote.uucp
---
~ DeLuxe 1.11a20 #4219fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) (02/11/90)
In article <912@tuewsd.lso.win.tue.nl> wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl (Peter Peters) writes: >After power on the machine starts to do its thing until the hard-disk >bios message is displayed. After that all is silent for 30-40 seconds >in which nothing seems to happen (no disk access that for sure). When >that time has passed the system continues to boot (reading stuff from >disk and bringing itself up). >This sequence happens also when re-booting with ctrl-alt-del, so it's >not a power-on problem, ergo : even if the disk is up to speed the >problem occurrs. I suspect it's something in the bios-extension of the >hard disk, but I'm not sure. What the hell can take 30-40 seconds?? > I've had this happen on machines where the CMOS ram (or the mother- board configuration switches) were set to show that there was a second hard disk (which isn't there, or isn't formatted). Depending on the BIOS, it may take even 2-3 minutes trying to get the second drive to respond. Check your setup, configuration jumpers on the disk controller, or anything else that might be indicating that you have more drives than you really have. . . . ---- Fritz Whittington Texas Instruments, Incorporated I don't even claim these opinions myself! MS 8338 UUCP: attctc!ernest!friday!fritz 8330 LBJ Freeway AT&T: (214)XYlophone7-6307 Dallas, Texas 75265
Elbereth@moncam.co.uk (Dave Emmerson) (02/25/90)
In article <912@tuewsd.lso.win.tue.nl>, wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl (Peter Peters) writes: > > marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) writes : > > > > [stuff deleted] > > > > I suspect the original disk that was slow to start wasn't getting > > enough power to spin it up to speed quickly. It took about 15 seconds > > to get started. > > Nope, No power supply is going to be THAT slow, forget it. Far more likely is that your controller thinks it's got another drive (hard or floppy) which is not there, but it waits around in case it's one of the old ones which did take up to a minute to spin up before it can finally be sure that it really doesn't exist. My SCSI controller does much the same, only in that particular instance there is no cure, it is quite possible for a single partition (maybe a huge one under DRDOS or DOS4.x) to bridge more than one single drive, do that DOS only sees one 200MB partition, though the controller knows there are 2 x 100MB drives. SCSI drives are, of course a type 0, so the controller has to find out for itself what is actually attached to it... Dave E.
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (02/28/90)
Elbereth@moncam.co.uk (Dave Emmerson) writes: >In article <912@tuewsd.lso.win.tue.nl>, wsinpp@lso.win.tue.nl (Peter Peters) writes: >> > marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) writes : >> > >> > [stuff deleted] >> > >> > I suspect the original disk that was slow to start wasn't getting >> > enough power to spin it up to speed quickly. It took about 15 seconds >> > to get started. >> > >Nope, No power supply is going to be THAT slow, forget it. >Far more likely is that your controller thinks it's got another drive >(hard or floppy) which is not there, but it waits around in case it's >one of the old ones which did take up to a minute to spin up before it >can finally be sure that it really doesn't exist. Then why did my problem go away when I replaced the drive - not the controller. The replacement drive was the same model as the old one. I changed no setup information. -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@wind55.seri.gov Senior Computer Engineer VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
neals@tekigm2.MEN.TEK.COM (Neal A Sedell) (02/28/90)
>> > I suspect the original disk that was slow to start wasn't getting >> > enough power to spin it up to speed quickly. It took about 15 seconds >> > to get started. >Nope, No power supply is going to be THAT slow, forget it. >Far more likely is that your controller thinks it's got another drive >(hard or floppy) which is not there, but it waits around in case it's >one of the old ones which did take up to a minute to spin up before it >can finally be sure that it really doesn't exist. I vote for #2 - my XT clone would take FOREVER (it seemed) to boot with 1 hard disk. After testing RAM it would flash the access light for the disk then go into limbo for about 30 seconds before trying to read the floppy. Since I've had two drives (1002A-WX1 controller BTW) it accesses both drives then immediately goes to the floppy, timing out in about 5 seconds then booting off C:. Much nicer, too bad I'll have to get rid of the original drive to put the full-height drive in and will be back to coffee break boots. Maybe if I could rig up a dummy board to return READY and/or Seek Complete on drive select 2.... -- # Neal Sedell (206) 253-5280 W e # aka neals@tekigm2.MEN.TEK.COM M a k e # Tektronix, Inc., Delivery C1-936 D i g i t i z e r s # PO Box 3500, Vancouver, WA 98668 (and Fast Data Caches)
rick@NRC.COM (Rick Wagner) (03/01/90)
>Elbereth@moncam.co.uk (Dave Emmerson) writes: >>Far more likely is that your controller thinks it's got another drive >>(hard or floppy) which is not there, but it waits around in case it's >>one of the old ones which did take up to a minute to spin up before it >>can finally be sure that it really doesn't exist. > I have seen this happen. I was working on someones XT clone, installing an EMS board, and I noticed that it took a long time to boot. It would "probe" the hard disk (the LED would blink, and the drive would recalibrate), then the machine would sit and think for about 15 seconds. Finally, the controller reported "1 hard disk found". This seemed to be an unreasonable amount of time, so I poked around. What I found was whoever installed the controller in the system had not removed the static protectors from the unused driver connector. This protector is a conductive black foam "worm" which is inserted between the rows of pins on the drive connectors during manufacture. I removed the "worm", rebooted, and the system came up much faster. Apparently, the "worm" was allowing some control line to be driven to a state, making the controller think there was another drive present. The controller then waited for the drive to come ready, and after 15 seconds gave up. -- =============================================================================== Rick Wagner Network Research Corp. rick@nrc.com 2380 North Rose Ave. (805) 485-2700 FAX: (805) 485-8204 Oxnard, CA 93030 Don't hate yourself in the morning; sleep 'til noon.