jcg (03/22/83)
"DON'T YOU THINK IT'S TIME ENGINEERS GOT SOME RECOGNITION" Mister Daniel W. Meeks has called for engineers getting an even break in the positive publicity department. Though it is true that engineers have accumulated a bad reputation for unsocial traits over the years, Mister Meeks, in his submission, shows us exactly why. Until engineers learn to speak, write and spell in their native language (read that, communicate as normal human beings) they will always be the brunt of jokes among the more clever sections of the intellectual community. Over the years, the common thread of all civilized, well-educated men and women, has been, and will always be, the ability to communicate thoughts and ideas to one another intelligently. Many engineers (though not exclusively) have distinct problems in this area. From Mister Meeks' article, I suspect he is a classic example. The argument that engineers are somehow different and do not need to be well-versed in the use of their own language is vacuous. What doctor, lawyer, scientist, politician, teacher, warrior, nurse, inventor, etc. worth their salt could not form a basic written sentence in their native language? Please Mister Meeks, spare me your pleas for pity. As a Computer Scientist, I have had to struggle to reverse the lazy attitudes taught to me by narrow minded "engineer-types" concerning the importance of the world beyond my terminal. Communication, both verbal and written, is the greatest part of my job now (though Applications and Systems software continues to spew from my keyboard) and I laugh at those who claim an engineer needs only technical skills. Phooey! Working to save engineers from vanity, Jim Grams P.S. Please move further discussion to net.lang or net.flame where it belongs.
mem (03/23/83)
c Although distinquishing between "verbal" and "written" language is like choosing between batteries and electricity; one is a subset of the other. Non-written is "vocal", or "oral", or something, but language in general is "verbal". Mark Mallett
lucius (03/24/83)
I've heard, and have been hurt by, the prejudice against engineers too many times to allow JG to get away with his flatulent dismissal of engineers as illiterate boors. His article, I am sad to say, is representative of most of the scientific establishment. I have found that, when dealing with "scientists", I must give my title as 'researcher' rather than engineer, for when I mention that my background is engineering, I find myself ignored, ridiculed, and generally used as the butt of whatever "ethnic" jokes are popular at the time. I would like to discuss a few of the points of deliberate misinformation that JG makes about engineers. His first, upon which he bases his entire "communication" argument, is that engineers cannot spell. (Please note that he extends the typographical errors of ONE engineer, who is after all, too busy trying to clean up the mess that the scientists left for him/her, to worry about errors that do not disable communication, to the entire population of engineers.) I, personally, am from a lower class background, with mostly second rate schooling (except for a few unusual individuals <to whom I regularly give thanks>), with little training in the 'arts'. My spelling, use of grammar, and the like is not as good as I would prefer. I urge the reader to examine this article for such, <I have spotted one instance of incorrect spelling, punctuation, or grammar to this point in this note, which I shall leave for JG to attack.>, and draw whatever conclusions that he or she may about the literacy of this engineer. The second point, that which states that "Engineers cannot communicate" I believe to be similarly refuted by this note. I trust that I have, by this time, conveyed both my opinion of Mr. JG's prejudices, and my unhappiness with them. His third point, that engineers are not worthy of consideration, if taken seriously, could be rebutted by pointing out his need to eat, sleep, and live in an environment conducive to human life. It is clear, however, that he made the argument merely to inspire rage and incoherency in the reader, so that he might have the reader prove his point for him. This challenge I refuse. Don't ask ME to fix what YOU break John Galt (aka Lucius Gil Jones)
crc (03/25/83)
Judge men by their opinions. -Charles Colbert, Engineer