jcg (03/25/83)
Oh rapturous Joy! An engineer responds to his critic! This IS news. Recently, Mr. John Galt leaped to the stalwart defense of a much maligned class of worker, the engineer. Despite the bitingly offensive tone employed, Mr. Geek Jones has made some interesting statements. His primarily valid point concerning generalizations is, of course, tautological. Mr. Lucius fortunately explains his lack of understanding of the finer points of debate by detailing his educational experiences for us. I am deeply hurt that Mr. Gil feels that he has received a less-than-adequate education, owing to, if I read his implication properly, a lower-class upbringing. It is a sad commentary indeed on civilization that we not only miseducate a portion of our population, but then make them engineers as well. Beyond his point about generalizations, I find Lucius' arguments sadly wanting. Rather than scream about misguided prejudices, why doesn't Gil look at his own circumstances? As he so blithely admits, he will not refer to himself as an "engineer", instead preferring to introduce himself as a "researcher" (now there is an arrogant title for you! I suspect that in the entire world there are not more than 100 true researchers -- the remaining pretenders are, of course, scientists, technicians and engineers). If I have a prejudice against engineers, at least it is simultaneously self-criticism, and not the bigoted elitism espoused by Mr. Jones. Lastly, to claim that engineers "cannot communicate" is tatamount to gagging my own voice (something I am not wont to do). What I intended to stress was that many "engineer" types (and this extends to "scientists" and even "researchers" as well) have difficulty communicating because (and here I'll admit to posing a debatable conclusion, though the problem most assuredly exists) of an unhealthy disregard for the value of a strong education in BOTH the Arts and the Sciences. Making no claims to perfection, Jim Grams P. S. Several persons, undoubtably non-engineers (goad, goad) graciously corrected my misuse of the term "verbal" and I thank them for pointing out this deficiency. After all, I'm only an engineer.
lucius (03/27/83)
It's a real shame that Jim Grams couldn't have read my note a little more thoroughly before he wrote his, and subsequently disqualified his entire arguement, which belongs in net.flame along with the rest of the unqualified sophistry. I especially found amusing his ravings about "offensive tone". It comes to me as no surprise that he can recognize an offensive tone, but it would behoove him to consider what could be done should I wish to resort to sophistry and "offensive tone" myself. (I believe such things to be foolish, and not likely to produce improvement in any situation.) It's unfortunate that he has chosen net.movies as the launching point of his Jihad against engineers, since movies, being so poorly constructed and lacking in art <at least these days>, don't attract the attention of many engineers, who prefer more consistant, better thought out, and more subtle entertainment than "Spring Break" or "Young Frankenstein". While I suppose that he would have seen more opposition (both qualified and unqualified) would he have chosen a more technical group, I am pleasantly relieved that so few engineers have been encouraged to waste their time. (I argue on my own time.) Also amusing was his insistance that engineers have no background outside their own fields. As the note that he complained about demonstrated, such is not the case. <And I'm NOT going to explain it, if you can't figure it out, then educate yourself.> It's especially interesting (and amusing, to me) that he missed the essential contradiction in the names "John Galt" and "Lucius Gil Jones". Perhaps a few weeks of entertaining and enlightening reading would aid him in recognizing such subtlty. I urge the gentleman (if indeed he is) to consider his own highly emotional basis for disliking those who have the ability to change their environment for better or worse. Please, Mr. Grams, let us move this silly debate to net.flame, where those who thrive on controversy can read it, and those who must obtain solace from the mass media don't have to have their minds boggled. In a more serious vein, there are certainly illiterate (or un-artistic) engineers, as well as scientists, and for that matter professors of English. Using the worst examples of any profession, as has been done with engineers for many years, can only interfere with both the individual's and society's welfare. Lucius Gil Jones "The Roads Must Roll"