stevek@hpfcmgw.HP.COM (Steve Kauder) (02/21/90)
Hi all,
I'm ready to bite (or byte) the bullet and get a PC clone. I've
been considering a Dell. The magazines rave over them. So, there
are two questions for anyone to answer.
First, have you had any experiences with Dell you would
relate?
Second, how about their 386SX machine? What's the general
feelings about this vs. a 286 or a "real" 386?
Thanks in advance,
skrob@prism.TMC.COM (02/22/90)
stevek@hpfcmgw.UUCP writes: >I'm ready to bite (or byte) the bullet and get a PC clone. I've >been considering a Dell. The magazines rave over them. So, there >are two questions for anyone to answer. > First, have you had any experiences with Dell you would > relate? I've had a Dell 325 for about a year now and I've been very pleased with it. It's performance is excellent, it's proven pretty reliable, and the technical support has been good. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone else. The one problem I've had with it involved the diskette drive. They replaced it within 48 hours without question. A technician did the work on-site, as per Dell's standard warranty.
mjb@nucleus.mi.org (Mark Bobak) (02/26/90)
I've been running a System 310 for about a year and a half now, 8 hrs a day 5-6 days a week. No problems at all. I'm very happy with the reliability. When I first received my system, I had a bad video card. I called them up, and had another one within a week. The technical support was very helpful and responsive. The prices are a tad bit high, but I'd say you're getting what you pay for. -- Mark Bobak The Nucleus Public Access Unix, Clarkston, Mi. mjb@nucleus.mi.org mjb@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us
whm@sunquest.UUCP (Bill Mitchell) (03/01/90)
stevek@hpfcmgw.UUCP writes: >I'm ready to bite (or byte) the bullet and get a PC clone. I've >been considering a Dell. The magazines rave over them. So, there >are two questions for anyone to answer. > First, have you had any experiences with Dell you would > relate? Ooh! I've been waiting for someone to ask a question like that. My wife set up a home office to do some accounting work and she needed a PC. I'd always thought it would be fun to have a UNIX system at home, so I killed two birds with one stone and got a Dell 325 and Dell UNIX. Unfortunately, I think I must have bought it from the wrong Dell or something. The first bad experience I had was in simply getting the system shipped. When shopping around for a vendor, I was told it took about a week to make a 325. When I placed the order, I was told it would take a little under two weeks. It actually took about three weeks. This wouldn't usually have been bad, but for income tax purposes, we wanted to have system in hand by 12/31/89. It wasn't uncommon to get conflicting information about the order status. For example, I called one day and they said the system was ready to ship and the following day they said the system was still in production. The second bad experience I had involved vp/ix. Before buying the system, I asked the sales rep how good vp/ix was. Her initial response was basically "it runs every DOS program with no problems". I was astounded by this and I asked her to check further and verify this. She checked further and replied that "Well, you might have some problems with programs that use a bunch of memory, like 1-2-3r3, but that's about it." When I got the machine, I tried some DOS programs on it and about the only thing that worked well enough to use was a demo using Bricklin's(?) package. I called up technical support and they said, "Well, vp/ix really doesn't work too good. If you want to do anything serious, you'd better just use DOS." The third bad experience I had was with Dell's X windows. I can't remember a session using X that hasn't required a reboot (or N) to cure occurrences of catatonia. The fourth bad experience and my favorite one to relate regarded the tape drive. Here's the way I explained it to Dell technical suport: "I just purchased a Dell 325 with Dell's 150Mb tape. The tape works fine under Dell UNIX, but under DOS, the tape software says 'No tape controller present'." The first response I got out of technical support was "If the tape wasn't written under DOS, the system thinks the tape controller is dead." I was given a sequence of commands to reformat the tape for DOS. I was skeptical about this, but I didn't know much about PCs, so I went home that night and tried it. Same problem: 'No tape controller present'. I called back the following day and described the problem again. One thing led to another and for two and one-half hours, I followed Dell's over-the-phone instructions to try track down the problem. I forget the final approach and landing, but the problem turned out to be that I just needed to configure the DOS tape software to use interrupt address 338, not 300. So, for a question who's answer was "In the tape program, use address 338 instead of 300", Dell jerked me around on the phone for over two hours. If that's industry leading technical support, I hate to think what industry trailing technical support must be like. I have to admit that I made one mistake in the middle of the ordeal: I inverted the reading of a DIP switch, but I'd like to think that a company with expertise in dealing with novice PC maintainers would be on the lookout for that type of mistake. I guess I could go on, but the problems I've had have been hardware independent; the system itself seems pretty solid. Dell UNIX, which is apparently Interactive UNIX, only cost me $800 and for that price, I don't guess I can complain about it too much. (Not to mention that the file system is really a humper!) But if I need any technical support, I'll think I'll use a ten-minute time limit with the Dell experts and then post to comp.unix.i386. So would buy a Dell again? I was pretty close to sending the thing back under the 30-day NQA refund policy just on the grounds of pure infuriation, but I kept it. I have to believe that my sales and support experiences are the exception rather than the rule and most likely due to Dell's inexperience with UNIX. They probably do a great job when they stick with DOS; they've certainly got surveys that say so. So, yeah, I'd get a Dell again. As a matter of fact, I recently recommended one to a friend (that I'm not trying to get rid of). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Mitchell whm@sunquest.com (and my opinions are not necessarily shared by) Sunquest Information Systems sunquest!whm@arizona.edu 930 N. Finance Center Dr. {arizona,uunet}!sunquest!whm Tucson, AZ, 85710 602-885-7700
stecz@hotwheel.dell.com (John Steczkowski) (03/02/90)
In article <2146@sunquest.UUCP>, whm@sunquest.UUCP (Bill Mitchell) writes: > > Ooh! I've been waiting for someone to ask a question like that. > > My wife set up a home office to do some accounting work and she needed a PC. > I'd always thought it would be fun to have a UNIX system at home, so I killed > two birds with one stone and got a Dell 325 and Dell UNIX. Unfortunately, I > think I must have bought it from the wrong Dell or something. > > The first bad experience I had was in simply getting the system shipped. When > shopping around for a vendor, I was told it took about a week to make a 325. > When I placed the order, I was told it would take a little under two weeks. > It actually took about three weeks. This wouldn't usually have been bad, but > for income tax purposes, we wanted to have system in hand by 12/31/89. It > wasn't uncommon to get conflicting information about the order status. For > example, I called one day and they said the system was ready to ship and the > following day they said the system was still in production. I am sorry it took so long to get your system shipped. > > The second bad experience I had involved vp/ix. Before buying the system, I > asked the sales rep how good vp/ix was. Her initial response was basically > "it runs every DOS program with no problems". I was astounded by this and I > asked her to check further and verify this. She checked further and replied > that "Well, you might have some problems with programs that use a bunch of > memory, like 1-2-3r3, but that's about it." When I got the machine, I tried > some DOS programs on it and about the only thing that worked well enough to > use was a demo using Bricklin's(?) package. I called up technical support and > they said, "Well, vp/ix really doesn't work too good. If you want to do > anything serious, you'd better just use DOS." I don't think anyone in Dell UNIX Tech Support, would have told you that VP/ix is not an ends all perfect DOS emulator. VP/ix will run most packages that don't bypass bios calls, but I don't think that anyone would tell you that every package runs perfectly. And I would also tell you that if you want to do serious DOS work, DOS is better for that than VP/ix. > > The third bad experience I had was with Dell's X windows. I can't remember a > session using X that hasn't required a reboot (or N) to cure occurrences of > catatonia. I don't know what is going on with your X-windows session, but if you had called Dell UNIX Tech Support with your problem, somebody could have helped. I run X-windows all day every day, and I never have to reboot to fix an X-windows problem. In fact the only time I log out of X-windows is when I have to reboot my system while simulating a customer problem (ruptime shows that my machine has been up for 5 days). > > The fourth bad experience and my favorite one to relate regarded the tape drive. > Here's the way I explained it to Dell technical suport: "I just purchased a > Dell 325 with Dell's 150Mb tape. The tape works fine under Dell UNIX, but > under DOS, the tape software says 'No tape controller present'." The first > response I got out of technical support was "If the tape wasn't written under > DOS, the system thinks the tape controller is dead." I was given a sequence > of commands to reformat the tape for DOS. I was skeptical about this, but > I didn't know much about PCs, so I went home that night and tried it. Same > problem: 'No tape controller present'. I called back the following day and > described the problem again. One thing led to another and for two and one-half > hours, I followed Dell's over-the-phone instructions to try track down the > problem. I forget the final approach and landing, but the problem turned out > to be that I just needed to configure the DOS tape software to use interrupt > address 338, not 300. Our default address for a Wangtek controller is 300 in a DOS machine, the default address in a UNIX machine is 338, this is due to UNIX networking considerations. It is unfortuneate that the tech(s) that you talked to didn't know this. I will try and inform them so problems like this don't reoccur. > > So, for a question who's answer was "In the tape program, use address 338 > instead of 300", Dell jerked me around on the phone for over two hours. If How many other companies would spend over two hours with you on the phone, to help you fix a configuration problem? > that's industry leading technical support, I hate to think what industry > trailing technical support must be like. I have to admit that I made one > mistake in the middle of the ordeal: I inverted the reading of a DIP switch, > but I'd like to think that a company with expertise in dealing with novice > PC maintainers would be on the lookout for that type of mistake. > > I guess I could go on, but the problems I've had have been hardware > independent; the system itself seems pretty solid. Dell UNIX, which is > apparently Interactive UNIX, only cost me $800 and for that price, I don't > guess I can complain about it too much. (Not to mention that the file system > is really a humper!) But if I need any technical support, I'll think I'll use > a ten-minute time limit with the Dell experts and then post to comp.unix.i386. I won't tell you that UNIX support can solve every problem in < 10 minutes, but my records show that you have never talked to anyone in UNIX support. > > So would buy a Dell again? I was pretty close to sending the thing back > under the 30-day NQA refund policy just on the grounds of pure infuriation, > but I kept it. I have to believe that my sales and support experiences are the > exception rather than the rule and most likely due to Dell's inexperience with > UNIX. They probably do a great job when they stick with DOS; they've certainly It is true that our normal techsupport is inexperienced with UNIX, that is why we have a separate UNIX support group, which you have never talked to. You are still under your 90 days free UNIX support contract, so if you have any questions, give us a call. > got surveys that say so. So, yeah, I'd get a Dell again. As a matter of fact, > I recently recommended one to a friend (that I'm not trying to get rid of). > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Mitchell whm@sunquest.com > (and my opinions are not necessarily shared by) > Sunquest Information Systems sunquest!whm@arizona.edu > 930 N. Finance Center Dr. {arizona,uunet}!sunquest!whm > Tucson, AZ, 85710 602-885-7700 John Steczkowski Dell Unix Customer Support P#: (512) 343-3571 9505 Arboretum Blvd. !s: uunet!dell!hotwheel!stecz Austin, Texas 78759 @s: stecz@hotwheel.dell.com
larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (03/05/90)
In article <2146@sunquest.UUCP>, whm@sunquest.UUCP (Bill Mitchell) writes: > stevek@hpfcmgw.UUCP writes: > > The second bad experience I had involved vp/ix. Before buying the system, I > asked the sales rep how good vp/ix was. Her initial response was basically > "it runs every DOS program with no problems". I was astounded by this and I > asked her to check further and verify this. She checked further and replied We have VP/ix here at nstar - and use it daily to run a DOS based BBS under Interactive Unix (2.02) without problems. As a matter of fact, the 386/ix release of VP/ix has run every DOS application that I have tried. -- The Northern Star Public Access Unix Site, Notre Dame, Indiana USA uucp: iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry internet: larry@nstar USR HST 219-287-9020 * PEP 219-289-3745 * Hayes V9600 219-289-0286
tbetz@upaya.lilink.COM (Tom Betz) (03/07/90)
Quoth larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) in <511251@nstar.UUCP>: |In article <2146@sunquest.UUCP>, whm@sunquest.UUCP (Bill Mitchell) writes: |> stevek@hpfcmgw.UUCP writes: |> |> The second bad experience I had involved vp/ix. Before buying the system, I |> asked the sales rep how good vp/ix was. Her initial response was basically |> "it runs every DOS program with no problems". I was astounded by this and I |> asked her to check further and verify this. She checked further and replied | |We have VP/ix here at nstar - and use it daily to run a DOS based BBS |under Interactive Unix (2.02) without problems. As a matter of fact, |the 386/ix release of VP/ix has run every DOS application that I have |tried. Clearly, you haven't been using Word Perfect 5.{0,1}. Beware of any program that insists upon writing temporary files to the C: drive. Other than that, any DOS program should work just fine. -- "I don't run - I tend to black my eyes." - D.Parton | hombre!marob!upaya!tbetz ----------------------------------------------------| tbetz@upaya.lilink.com "One minute I'm in the pasture porkin' ponies, | Tom Betz - GBS the next I'm a can of Mighty Dog!" - Secretariat | (914) 375-1510
chan@chansw.UUCP (Jerry H. Chan) (03/09/90)
In article <1014@upaya.lilink.COM>, tbetz@upaya.lilink.COM (Tom Betz) writes: > Quoth larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) in <511251@nstar.UUCP>: > | > |We have VP/ix here at nstar - and use it daily to run a DOS based BBS > |under Interactive Unix (2.02) without problems. As a matter of fact, > |the 386/ix release of VP/ix has run every DOS application that I have > |tried. > > [comments about WP5.0 / WP5.1 not working] > Beware of any program that insists upon writing temporary files > to the C: drive. Other than that, any DOS program should work > just fine. To be fair, the problem described above only applies if attempting to run several simultaneous sessions from the same virtual drive ala networking. Running WP5.0 (I haven't tried 5.1, but don't expect any problems) works *fine* under VP/ix in "standalone" mode. Similar issues apply to running standalone apps under a network environment, i.e., Novell (the great red hack ;-). Besides the problems running protected mode software under VP/ix, the only other problems I have noted are * Running sw which relies on clock tics (i.e., many games) -- SW will run extremely sluggish, since VP/ix simulates these * Running Windows-286-based apps (you tend to get "Unable to emulate 2-byte instruction" errors and trap out of VP/ix back to Unix (still a problem as of R1.1.1) * Printing tends to be extremely slow, being that there is an additional level of indirection (DOS app prints using BIOS interrupts which are simulated, i.e., read, SLOWER; these BIOS interrupts are intercepted by VP/ix to output the data to a temporary file; the DOS app must complete printing before this temp file can be closed and shipped off the the Unix print spooler). Better off printing directly to a file and printng that file directly to the Unix spooler if possible). * Software running on a 386/20 seems to behaves as if it's running on a 286/8 (my subjective estimate), even on an unloaded system. * You are limited to a 10M virtual drive, of which you may have up to 2 (C: and D:) without going to a separate physical DOS partition. There may be a way to create larger virtual drives using mkfs on a Unix file (theoretically), but I haven't experimented. Sure, you can put lots of data on the Z: drive (Unix filesystem), but there's a fair amount of software with anti-network hooks built-in so that you can't run stand-alone SW on networks (i.e., Ventura 2.0) w/o buying a network version. * Running VP/ix on serial terminals comes with it's own class of problems -- remapping ALT, CTRL, SHFT, etc. key combinations as well as function keys, running apps which expect 25 lines on the screen instead of the typical 24 lines on terminals (unless you're running the newer class of PC-emulating tubes, i.e., Wyse 60's), etc., etc... * VP/ix currently only emulates DOS 3.3, not DOS 4.0+ (did I overhear somebody say that this was a blessing in disguise ? ;-) My view of VP/ix is that it's a security blanket of sorts allowing a user to make the transition to Unix more easily by letting him carry some of the old DOS baggage via VP/ix (IMHO). I wouldn't get too comfortable there though, given its limitations. [ Absestos gear donned... flame away 8-) ] -- Jerry Chan 508-853-0747, Fax 508-853-2262 |"My views necessarily reflect the Chan Smart!Ware Computer Services & Prods | views of the Company because Worcester, MA 01606 | I *am* the Company." :-) {bu.edu,husc6}!m2c!chansw!chan \---------------------------------