jalbert@cs.ubc.ca (Francois Jalbert) (02/21/90)
About a month ago, I bought an Everex RAM-3000 Deluxe (EV159), put 3 Mb on it as
extended using 100ns memory chips, left the W1 jumper on it for 2 wait states,
and tried it on my 14/9 MHz 80286. All worked fine so I bought it. Now, after
5 weeks of use, the Everex is failing. Certain rows and columns of the
matrix of memory chips fail. Swapping/replacing memory chips doesn't help.
The board works fine in the 12/8 MHz 80286 of a friend though. The newly found
problem is obviously linked to the bus speed. However, nowhere in the
documentation is a possible bus speed limit mentioned. Of course, I had checked
thoroughly for such a potential limitation in the documentation before buying.
The Everex technical support was useless. Their argument is: Our boards work
on some 20MHz 80386's, and fail on some 8MHz 80286's. Tough luck, buddy.
Needless to say, I am not too happy and have no choice but to sell the board.
I would just like to warn anybody out there to at least try any Everex board
in your machine before buying. I agree I did that and it didn't help, but do
it anyway. And don't expect any help from Everex if it fails after a while.
I will give Tall Tree Systems a ring tomorrow and see what they can offer.
Francois
'
P.S. I won't touch an Everex product for the rest of my life!phil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (02/21/90)
Yes, I have a RAM-8000 which does not work in my 12 MHz
286 mother board. I waited too long to try it and now
I can't return it. Sigh.
--
Phil Ngai, phil@amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil
When guns are outlawed, only governments will have guns.poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (02/28/90)
In article <6846@ubc-cs.UUCP> jalbert@cs.ubc.ca (Francois Jalbert) writes: >About a month ago, I bought an Everex RAM-3000 Deluxe (EV159), put 3 Mb on it as >extended using 100ns memory chips, left the W1 jumper on it for 2 wait states, >and tried it on my 14/9 MHz 80286. All worked fine so I bought it. Now, after >5 weeks of use, the Everex is failing. Certain rows and columns of the >matrix of memory chips fail. Swapping/replacing memory chips doesn't help. >The board works fine in the 12/8 MHz 80286 of a friend though. The newly found >problem is obviously linked to the bus speed. However, nowhere in the >documentation is a possible bus speed limit mentioned. Of course, I had checked >thoroughly for such a potential limitation in the documentation before buying. >The Everex technical support was useless. Their argument is: Our boards work >on some 20MHz 80386's, and fail on some 8MHz 80286's. Tough luck, buddy. >Needless to say, I am not too happy and have no choice but to sell the board. >I would just like to warn anybody out there to at least try any Everex board >in your machine before buying. I agree I did that and it didn't help, but do >it anyway. And don't expect any help from Everex if it fails after a while. >I will give Tall Tree Systems a ring tomorrow and see what they can offer. > > Francois > ' >P.S. I won't touch an Everex product for the rest of my life! I had a similar problem with an EV-159. I bought it, took it home and put it in my 16/8 Mhz '286 clone and would get all kinds of strange results. I took it back where I got it (Fry's) and they said I could either get my money back or try another. They even took that card and put it in one of their machines (different brand of clone than mine), and also had problems. OK, so I figured it was a bad board so I exchanged it for another. Put it in my system and guess what? Same problems. This time when I took it back, I got my money back, went somewhere else and got an Intel Aboveboard. Nearest I can tell is that the RAM-3000 deluxe has MAJOR compatibility problems that Everex doesn't want to admit. Too bad, I liked some of the features that the board had. As far as not buying another Everex product, I don't know, I also have a 2400 Baud modem, magic I/O card, and tape backup, all from Everex and have never had any problems with those. BTW, the Aboveboard works flawlessly, not as flexible in addressing, and not as many features, but it is good enough for what I want. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
solomon@rice.edu (Richard L. Solomon) (02/28/90)
In article <1990Feb28.033007.16273@sj.ate.slb.com> poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) writes: >In article <6846@ubc-cs.UUCP> jalbert@cs.ubc.ca (Francois Jalbert) writes: >>About a month ago, I bought an Everex RAM-3000 Deluxe (EV159), put 3 Mb on it as >>extended using 100ns memory chips, left the W1 jumper on it for 2 wait states, >>and tried it on my 14/9 MHz 80286. All worked fine so I bought it. Now, after >>5 weeks of use, the Everex is failing. Certain rows and columns of the >>matrix of memory chips fail. Swapping/replacing memory chips doesn't help. >>The board works fine in the 12/8 MHz 80286 of a friend though. The newly found >>problem is obviously linked to the bus speed. However, nowhere in the >>documentation is a possible bus speed limit mentioned. Of course, I had checked >>thoroughly for such a potential limitation in the documentation before buying. Officially, (As in Big Blue's dictum and the ISA spec portion of EISA) the AT (ISA) bus is limited to 8MHz. After working tech support for a shop that sold numerous clones, I feel qualified to throw in some thoughts here. Most clone MBs do a lousy job of decoupling the CPU speed from the bus speed. Instead of running the two asynchronously, they try inserting wait states or doing less kosher things like playing with the system clock during bus accesses. Admittedly, Everex should be aware if their boards have some dependency on clock speed or whatever, BUT there is an incredible difference in how different MBs violate spec. Some clone MBs will actually work better if their bus-limiting stuff is turned off (a few MBs have a jumper to allow running the bus at full-speed.) In order to save money, clones sacrifice technical sophistication. When you buy a no-name clone, be careful. I recommend clones highly, but I also recommend buying a name if you want more than 10MHz. We had tons and tons of trouble with 12MHz clones. Apparently the newer 12's run Ok, as long as the on-board DRAMs are a little faster than the docs request. A good (Everex, NEC, AST, Compaq, etc....) well-engineered MB runs the CPU at one speed and the bus at another. Cheap MBs try this, but rarely pull it off. >>P.S. I won't touch an Everex product for the rest of my life! I'm sorry to hear this, I am in no way affiliated with Everex, but have found their products to be generally high-quality and well-engineered. >I had a similar problem with an EV-159. I bought it, took it home and put it in >my 16/8 Mhz '286 clone and would get all kinds of strange results. I took it > > [stuff deleted] > >As far as not buying another Everex product, I don't know, I also have a 2400 >Baud modem, magic I/O card, and tape backup, all from Everex and have never >had any problems with those. Everex modems are amongst the best, ditto for tape backups, I have no experience with their I/O cards. Again, I have no affiliation with Everex other than as a satisfied customer. Richard Solomon solomon@owlnet.rice.edu
strike@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (Tim Bowser) (03/02/90)
phil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >Yes, I have a RAM-8000 which does not work in my 12 MHz >286 mother board. I waited too long to try it and now >I can't return it. Sigh. >-- >Phil Ngai, phil@amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil >When guns are outlawed, only governments will have guns. Currently running 1 meg EMS on a RAM-3000 in a 20Mhz SX. Before that, it was running without one glitch in an AST 10Mhz 286. Everex products tend to be a bit unconventional (look at their modems, for an example), but their reliability is never in doubt. If the original poster will note; in the documents for the RAM-3000, it states that the 16-bit mode is not reliable in a high-speed environment (this in the Expanded memory mode).Page 24 has the note in boldface. Also, you didn't specify the speed of the chips mounted on the RAM-3000. Using 150ns chips in a high-speed computer isn't just questionable from a performance standpoint, it is dubious from the reliability aspect as well. One last item; check where in the box the RAM-whatever is mounted. Cooling is critical, since the chips are so densely packed on the expansion board. Put it as close to the air inlet as possible (bottom of the stack in a tower, Slot 1 in a desktop. Take all of this as it is intended, I am not trying to "slam" anyone. If it is belaboring the obvious, just hit "n" and bail out. -- Tim Bowser ("Strikemaster") | Standard | mailrus!sharkey!clmqt!strike Enterprise Information System | Disclaimer | strike@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US Marquette, Mi. USA | Here | Voice:(906)-346-6735 => UNIX: The Adventure Begins... To vi, or not to vi, that is the question. <=
news@udenva.cair.du.edu (netnews) (03/06/90)
i fell the need to express my tremendous fondness of Everex products. everything they make is excellent. i've never had a problem with their add on boards. again i've moved 1000+ everex cards and the failure rate is negligible. the docs are intelligent and thorough. the software is top rate. the only thing i don't like about everex is that they use seagate drives. a year ago, seagate had a %20 failure rate w/ 225 and 238 models. 4096s dropped like flies. i worked for seagate and knew all the woes. they are better now, but i would buy a Microscience in a minute. by the way, if you need a good hard disk, mail order, competitive price.. try Rose Hill Systems in Scott's Valley California. across the street from seagate #15, these folks are classy. when i was there we built machines (Everex) for SCO, Borland, and Seagate. when i left , we had sold well over 1000 microscience drives thru the mail, mostly in individual boxes; we got 3 back. 1-800-248-ROSE. included with every machine is QA Plus, and excellent tech support, toll free. they advertise in computer shopper, and some other mags. tell them tim reynolds sent you. and say hi to shamous. tim .
mlord@bnr-rsc.UUCP (Mark Lord) (03/08/90)
In article <1668@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US> strike@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (Tim Bowser) writes: <phil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: < <<Yes, I have a RAM-8000 which does not work in my 12 MHz <<286 mother board. I waited too long to try it and now <<I can't return it. Sigh. < Currently running 1 meg EMS on a RAM-3000 in a 20Mhz SX. Before that, <it was running without one glitch in an AST 10Mhz 286. < < If the original poster will note; in the documents for the RAM-3000, <it states that the 16-bit mode is not reliable in a high-speed <environment (this in the Expanded memory mode).Page 24 has the note in <boldface. Also, you didn't specify the speed of the chips mounted on the <RAM-3000. Using 150ns chips in a high-speed computer isn't just <questionable from a performance standpoint, it is dubious from the <reliability aspect as well. These are ok comments, but we all know that processor speed can be misleading, especially here. Many 12Mhz machines run the expansion bus at a full 12Mhz. All of the SX machines I have seen, though, run it at 1/2 processor speed. So it is not all that amazing that the card works in a 20Mhz SX, since it is really running it at a mere 10Mhz, the same as the AST 286. I had an EVEREX RAM-3000DX, with 120ns rams, that would not work in 16-bit EMS mode on a 10Mhz bus.. setting the appropriate jumper allowed it to work in 8-bit mode ok. The EXTENDED memory portion worked fine with 16-bit accesses regardless. The 16-bit EMS mode DID work in my 18Mhz SX, but only because the bus really runs at 9Mhz in that box. -- ______Mark S. Lord______________________ ______________________________ | ..uunet!bnrgate!carrsc!mlord | These are only MY opinions. | | or: bnr-rsc!mlord@bnrgate | I charge for official views. | |________________________________________|______________________________|
strike@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (Tim Bowser) (03/17/90)
Strange.
The RAM-3000 I had was running in a 20Mhz SX machine in the Expanded
memory configuration, zero errors. The planar is a Pioneer Advantage,
and has separate bus and CPU timing. Wish the speed change for the bus
wasn't disabled thru BIOS, I'd like to see what cards I have will behave
on an accelerated I/O bus.
No further statements from me on the subject; the board in question is
now embedded quite happily in our BBS machine (Compaq 286 planar,
assorted other parts). 4 meg and going for 5 in the near future...
--
Tim Bowser ("Strikemaster") | Standard | mailrus!sharkey!clmqt!strike
Enterprise Information System | Disclaimer | strike@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US
Marquette, Mi. USA | Here | Voice:(906)-346-6735
=> UNIX: The Adventure Begins... To vi, or not to vi, that is the question. <=