punia@uvm-gen.UUCP (Card 54...) (03/17/89)
From article <738@omen.UUCP>, by caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX): > > Compared to the "classic AT" keyboard, the lack of a separate > SysRq key makes life a bit more interesting with VP/ix. On > the other hand, function keys across the top on the new IBM keyboards > is the pits, not to mention the Ctrl key. I do wish the tilde/squiggle > key were someplace logical instead of next to the spacebar. And I'm > not too happy with backslash/pipe bering just to the right of the > right shift key. I've been using the Northgate Omni Key 102 for a few months now, and I'm as much a fan as the others who've chosen to chime in on this thread. I've got 2 of the AT&T versions of this unit. They have a ROM that supports AT&T's different communications protocol, and an adaptor cable. My order was shipped promptly, and I even got a followup call to see how I liked them, though I think the real motivation there was to sell me one of their clones. The only problem I've had with it is occasional failure to reset when I do a hard reboot on my 6300. The layout has a few things I'm not so fond of, mostly those mentioned above, but it's worth putting up with to have the function keys on the left. The PrintScreen key needs no shifting to activate, which has caused me occasional undesired prints, and the cursor keys sometimes come up in the wrong mode with some applications, a problem that is easily resolved by a couple of taps of the NumLock key. I like the feel, but as others have said, that's a pretty personal matter. And coming from the piece of garbage AT&T ships with the 6300, the Northgate is a real joy to use, and probably won't need cleaning yearly to maintain its feel, like the AT&T does. -- David T. Punia Voice: 802-656-1915 Compu$erve: 72617,1211 Univ. of Vermont CSEE dept UUCPathalias --> punia@uvm-gen.uucp Burlington, VT 05401-0156 CS/INTERNET ---> punia@uvm.edu UUCPath --> ...!{princeton,harvard,decvax,dartvax,?}!uunet!uvm-gen!punia
phil@pepsi.amd.com (02/16/90)
I'm in the market for a new keyboard and have heard various good
things about Northgate. Are they available only from the factory?
Would anyone care to comment on them?
--
Phil Ngai, phil@amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil
When guns are outlawed, only governments will have guns.cjoslyn@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) (02/18/90)
Good stuff: function keys where God intended them to be, extra keypad, solid feel, good click, detachable data cord. I'd never go back. -- O-------------------------------------------------------------------------> | Cliff Joslyn, Cybernetician at Large, cjoslyn@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu | Systems Science, SUNY Binghamton, Box 1070, Binghamton NY 13901, USA V All the world is biscuit shaped. . .
root@km4ba.UUCP (root) (02/19/90)
I love em! .... the best layout & feel I have found. I am thinking about buying one or two as spares! Alan Barrow gatech!kd4nc!km4ba!alan
david@metapyr.UUCP (David Relson) (02/20/90)
I like them too. I use an OmniKey/102 at work and have an order in for one for home usage. I tried the OmniKey/Plus and returned it - I didn't need the extra keys and found myself more confused than helped by a full second keypad. If they had an 84 key keyboard (function keys on left, only one set of cursor control keys), that would be exactly what I want. The OmniKey/102 is an acceptably close second.
MOORE@gecrdvm1.crd.ge.com (Hugh Kelsea Moore) (02/22/90)
I have the Northgate keyboard. Bought it with the Northgate 25MHz machine. I don't think it is as good as the best IBM keyboards, but it's not bad.
mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (02/22/90)
I cannot resist: The much praised Northgate OmniKey is the *worst* keyboard I have ever used (I haven't tried pounding nails with it, but I suspect that it's not much good for that either). Which leads me to ask: What is it that so many of you do with it that you like it so much? The "feel" is horrible. I much prefer either IBM or my (admittedly cheesly - Made in Taiwan) ZEOS keyboard for both writing and programming - nice easy touch, crisp click. alan mead : mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
phil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (02/23/90)
In article <19500056@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu> mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes: |Which leads me to ask: What is it that so many of you do with it |that you like it so much? The "feel" is horrible. I much prefer It feels great to me (I might even like it better than the IBM, which seems to have too much key travel and force) but keyboards are like editors, they tend to get religious. |either IBM or my (admittedly cheesly - Made in Taiwan) ZEOS |keyboard for both writing and programming - nice easy touch, crisp |click. Surprise! Northgate is also MIT. -- Phil Ngai, phil@amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil When guns are outlawed, only governments will have guns.
bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) (02/23/90)
In article <19500056@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu>, mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > The much praised Northgate OmniKey is the *worst* keyboard I have ever > used (I haven't tried pounding nails with it, but I suspect that it's > not much good for that either). > > Which leads me to ask: What is it that so many of you do with it > that you like it so much? The "feel" is horrible. I much prefer > either IBM or my (admittedly cheesly - Made in Taiwan) ZEOS > keyboard for both writing and programming - nice easy touch, crisp > click. Talk about starting religious wars! Why not ask about editors, programming languages, or operating systems? :-) A lot of keyboard preference is what you first encounter - after that, all later experiences are colored (one way or another) by that memory. Personally, I did much of my early programming on Hazeltine, Beehive, and DEC terminals (pre-VT-100). All of these terminals (as well as the VT-100) have what IBM keyboard aficionados call a "mushy" feel. (if you miss the feedback many such terminals allow you to select a keyclick option). I find the IBM keyboard rather noisy and clackity. Personal preference in keyboards is just that - there's not much point trying to analyze it rationally. Seems like keyboard makers could make more people happy by allowing their keyboards to be configured (like the DEC keyboards mentioned above) or selling different versions of the keyboard. Bruce C. Wright
toma@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) (02/24/90)
In article <19500056@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu> mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >I cannot resist: >The much praised Northgate OmniKey is the *worst* keyboard I have ever >used [...] >Which leads me to ask: What is it that so many of you do with it >that you like it so much? The "feel" is horrible. I much prefer >either IBM or my (admittedly cheesly - Made in Taiwan) ZEOS >keyboard for both writing and programming - nice easy touch, crisp >click. I can't resist either. Here is my very objective :-) analysis of the Northgate Keyboard: IBM keyboards have too much of a click -- they feel too mechanical -- a Papa Bear keyboard. Most keyboards shiped with systems provide no feedback of any kind -- cold mush, Mama Bear keyboard. The Northgate gives just the right amount of mechanical and audible feedback. It's the Baby Bear keyboard. Like the IBM, the Northgate has reasonable mass. It sits well on the lap. Most cheap keyboards leave me worried that the coil cord will yank the keyboard off my lap. The Northgate keyboard doesn't have any of those key placement mistakes that have been on every IBM keyboard: Unlike the PC keyboard, there is no key between the left shift and the Z, and the backspace and return keys are oversize. Unlike the AT 84 key keyboard, the Escape is in the correct place, and the backspace key is oversize. Unlike the AT 101 key keyboard, the control and escape keys are in the correct place and the function keys go down the left side (and most theologians agree that is where God intended they be -- "Thou Shalt Not Place Thy Function Keys Across The Top Of Thy Keyboards"). I've got three Northgate keyboards, and wouldn't trade them for any other. And my keyboard can beat up your keyboard! So there! Tom Almy toma@tekgvs.labs.tek.com Standard Disclaimers Apply
lulu@ucrmath.ucr.edu (david lu) (02/24/90)
The only thing I don't like about the Northgate keyboard is its price. It's just too expensive for a starving student like me. - David
john@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks III) (02/24/90)
In article <29255@amdcad.AMD.COM> phil@pepsi.AMD.COM (Phil Ngai) writes: > In article <19500056@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu> mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > | Which leads me to ask: What is it that so many of you do with it > | that you like it so much? The "feel" is horrible. > > It feels great to me (I might even like it better than the IBM, > which seems to have too much key travel and force) but keyboards are > like editors, they tend to get religious. Although most people will probably agree that the PS/2 keyboards are just about the worst for routine usage. The "escape" is in the wrong place...so I press "~" all the time. The control key is wrong, the "Caps Lock" key is where control is supposed to be, the function keys are on the top. IBM spent millions of dollars to develope the Selectric typewriter keyboard, which is probably the best keyboard ever made. So why do they keep messing with success and screwing up the PC keyboards??? BTW--although I like my Northgate keyboard, it does have a nasty habit of repeating a key if you press it ever-so-lightly. I only notice this when I am in "rn", and I rest my trigger finger on "n". -john- -- =============================================================================== John A. Weeks III (612) 942-6969 john@newave.mn.org NeWave Communications ...uunet!rosevax!bungia!wd0gol!newave!john ===============================================================================
tbetz@upaya.lilink.COM (Tom Betz) (02/25/90)
Quoth mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu in <19500056@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu>: | |The much praised Northgate OmniKey is the *worst* keyboard I have ever |used (I haven't tried pounding nails with it, but I suspect that it's |not much good for that either). | |Which leads me to ask: What is it that so many of you do with it |that you like it so much? The "feel" is horrible. I much prefer |either IBM or my (admittedly cheesly - Made in Taiwan) ZEOS |keyboard for both writing and programming - nice easy touch, crisp |click. There's no accounting for taste. I don't like clicking keys or a stiff feel. I prefer a mushier keyboard, with a light touch, like the Wyse Taiwan keyboard I'm using right now. People used to the stiffer keys of a Selectric will prefer the IBM keyboard. I never liked typewriters, and have only become a regular keyboarder with the advent of PCs. Everyone's preferences are different... that's why so many companies can make so many different keyboards. -- "I don't run - I tend to black my eyes." - D.Parton | hombre!marob!upaya!tbetz ----------------------------------------------------| tbetz@upaya.lilink.com "One minute I'm in the pasture porkin' ponies, | Tom Betz - GBS the next I'm a can of Mighty Dog!" - Secretariat | (914) 375-1510
norm@bartek1.uucp (Norm Bartek) (02/26/90)
I recently purchased a Northgate keyboard for only one reason - it has the ESCape and control keys in the "standard place". It seems that IBM plays games with keyboard layouts (as they have with the typical 101 key AT style keyboards available through them as well as clone manufacturers). I also have an XT clone and a Zenith AT clone. Both have the control key next to the letter A (common in the industry). The ESCape key is also in easy reach (above the TAB key). If you haven't had the pleasure ;-) of having different keyboard layouts side by side, you can't imagine the grief you go through trying to switch back and forth between the two systems. As far as tactile feedback or "feel", that is indeed a religous issue. Layout, on the other hand, should be the consistent in all places. If you want examples, try to do any real work on a DEC LK-201 keyboard (Rainbow and others) and then go back to a PC keyboard. DEC had the insight to put the backspace, ESCape and other keys up in row of keys above the main keyboard :-( Not nice if you use screen editors which use the ESC key or ever make typing errors and have to use the backspace key. If you then go back to a PC, I find that you have to make a conscious effort in order to be able to type. I haven't had these problems since switching over to a common layout for the main keys on the keyboard (and dumping the DEC keyboard). -- norm -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bartek Associates, Inc. Comprehensive Computer Consulting Services 1020 Ponderosa USENET: uunet!bartek1!norm, norm@bartek1.uu.net Barrington, IL 60010-5800 PHONE: +1 708 358 1007 FAX: +1 708 358 7241
teskey@plains.UUCP (Vlad The Impaler) (03/01/90)
In article <53@newave.UUCP> john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes: >In article <29255@amdcad.AMD.COM> phil@pepsi.AMD.COM (Phil Ngai) writes: >> In article <19500056@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu> mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> | Which leads me to ask: What is it that so many of you do with it >> | that you like it so much? The "feel" is horrible. >> >> It feels great to me (I might even like it better than the IBM, >> which seems to have too much key travel and force) but keyboards are >> like editors, they tend to get religious. > >Although most people will probably agree that the PS/2 keyboards are >just about the worst for routine usage. The "escape" is in the wrong >place...so I press "~" all the time. The control key is wrong, the >"Caps Lock" key is where control is supposed to be, the function keys >are on the top. > >-john- > So is it the layout you are complaining about or are you complaining about the PS/2 keyboard itself? There is a pretty wide distinction there. You have obviously done most of your earlier computing work on the old style 88 key keyboards from an XT or a PC. Coming from a person that has worked primarily with 101 Key keyboards.. those 88 key models are a nightmare! I don't know who got the idea that the F keys are 'supposed' to be on the left but I hate having to pull my hands off the keyboard to hit one. Anyway.. as far as 101 key keyboards go, if IBM keyboards are so bad, why is everyone trying to imitate it? They set the world standard for touch. They might be just a touch loud for most, but it is a strong, definative keyboard with no wishy-washy characteristics about it. With a good firm feel to it (while still having good travel on each key) you can get great typing speed without accidentally laaaaaaaayyyyying on a key. As far as durability goes, I don't think you could find one that would take more punishment. I haven't proven my theory yet, but I think they are bulletproof.. (kidding.. no flames). BTW.. my second favorite keyboard is the ZEOS.. ============================================================================ Mark W. Teskey INTERNET: teskey@plains.nodak.edu BITNET: teskey@plains UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!teskey ============================================================================
gast@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (David Gast) (03/03/90)
>The Northgate keyboard doesn't have any of those key placement mistakes that >have been on every IBM keyboard: So it has the control key next to the "A" key? I have not seen this particular keyboard. If I wanted to buy a selectric typewriter, I would buy one, but I want to use a computer and I need to hit the control key all the time and I cannot remember the last time I used the caps lock key. I don't use FORTRAN? (Didn't use the caps lock there either). Why can't someone make a key board with the control key in the correct place? Seems pretty simple to me. If there is such a beast, please let me know. Actually, it seems that a setup program should allow you to remap many of the keys -- perhaps even sending more than one character for certain keys. The function keys do it, why not others? And why the desired characters? David Gast gast@cs.ucla.edu {uunet,ucbvax,rutgers}!{ucla-cs,cs.ucla.edu}!gast
deen@topaz.rutgers.edu (Cinnamon Raisin) (04/07/90)
I also recently bought a Northgate keyboard ( ya know they must be making a fortune because of the Net News and all of the talk about their keyboards) I have a Tandy 1000sx ( refrain from laughter please) and the keyboard (102+) worked out of the box, which I took as a good sign. After using it a while though, the darn thing wouldn't work after rebooting or on a cold start. The only cure I found was to unplug the keyboard cable from the computer and plug it back in while it was on (probably not a good idea, but it worked) After a while this became annoying, so I called up Northgate and after waiting 15 min. on hold they offered to call me back the same day. Two days later I get the call, and the Tech suggests that the EPROM might be *)!(4, so they sent me a new one no charge. They also gave me the option of exchanging the keyboard for a brand new one, credit card deposit required until you mail the old one back. The new EPROM works,so far (knock, knock) and it added some new features such as: - Better control on the key repeat speed - Ability to switch the \ key with the * key located between CTRL and ALT. The second feature doesn't work for me and the new firmware seems to to have messed up the scroll lock key as it doesn't work. Overall though I like the keyboard. Here are some of the reasons for those of you thinking about a replacement keyboard. - It's heavy, this sucker is a real keyboard and it has the weight to prove it, not like the lightweight plastic junk most OEM's like to sell you. - The keys are tough, if you are a heavy handed typist, this keyboard will survive you. - The "tactile feedback" is very IBM'ish, if you like that sort of thing. There is a serious 'click' when a key is pressed which may make for a noisy keyboard, but then you also when a key wasn't pressed. - The layout is pretty well thought out. It's a big keyboard, plenty of room for a big hand. On the other hand: - It has some problems if your computer isn't an AT, like my 1000 Keys don't allways work as they are supposed to. - The function keys ont the left are great, but more and more computers feature the function keys on top. A combination of both sets on one keyboard would be great. - The location of the left ALT key leaves a lot to be desired. The ability to switch it with the CAPSLOCK key would be a welcome addition.. - The ability to reassign the cursor control keypad would be nice also, I've gotten used to the inverted T over the years and the other keys (PGUP,PGDWN,HOME,END) are too far apart. - The ~ key should be someplace higher on the keyboard. I guess I could go on complaining, but I notice most of my complaints are pretty much personal preference. Northgate puts out an excellent keyboard and I am glad that I bought one, but it is not perfect. Perhaps a good idea, would be to get together a list of suggestions to send off to Northgate so that they have some more voice from customers or prospective customers? -Z Raisin * PS: I am not affiliated with Northgate in anyway, except as a happy customer. If anyone can offer a cure for the <SCROLL LOCK> key problem, let me know. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rutgers!gritty!zraisin | Super Amazin Cinnamon Raisin | deen@topaz.rutgers.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- < < < < M A Y T H E P R E Z E N T T E N Z B E W I T H Y O U > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RFM@psuvm.psu.edu (04/07/90)
As a bummed-out EX-Tandy owner, I have a suggestion on how to improve the operation of your Northgate keyboard: Junk your SX & get another computer. ANYTHING but a Tandy. They "tweak" their systems just enough to make them devilishly difficult to interface with anything but other Tandy equipment. This is, of course, all my own opinion, and not official or unofficial university opinion, etc.... Bob M.
u2zj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Stanton Loh) (04/08/90)
In article <Apr.7.10.15.43.1990.28982@topaz.rutgers.edu>, deen@topaz.rutgers.edu (Cinnamon Raisin) writes: > > [...] > > same day. Two days later I get the call, and the Tech suggests > that the EPROM might be *)!(4, so they sent me a new one no charge. I had a 2 yr old Northgate Keyboard which didn't get along with Lotus v3. The keyboard was so old that when Northgate suggested the eprom might need upgrading, inspection revealed no visible eprom chip at all. (At my suggestion) they sent me an OmniKey 102. When I received it I mailed back my old one. The old keyboard was covered by a 3 yr warrantee, but they never even asked me for the original date of purchase. The OmniKey is a nicer than my old 101 - it is a bit smaller (7.25" x 20.25"), the keys have a slightly softer KlicK! to them, the function keys are on the left and the key position (from top to bottom) is ctrl-shift-alt. Just the way I happen to like a keyboard. My one nit is that while the keys make a pleasant, productive Klick KlicK KlicK, the <Return> key makes a loud, chintzy, flaccid KlacK! Notwithstanding, I think Northgate makes a quality, durable keyboard which they support well (and price accordingly). -Stanton u2zj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
coffman@plains.UUCP (Clark Coffman) (04/10/90)
In article <Apr.7.10.15.43.1990.28982@topaz.rutgers.edu> deen@topaz.rutgers.edu (Cinnamon Raisin) writes: [ [ I also recently bought a Northgate keyboard ( ya know they must [ be making a fortune because of the Net News and all of the talk [ about their keyboards) [ .....Deleted.... [ [ - The function keys ont the left are great, but more and more [ computers feature the function keys on top. A combination [ of both sets on one keyboard would be great. [ Northgate sells a keyboard called the Omnikey Plus ( at least I think that's the one I'm talking about ) that has the function keys on the left and the top. If I remember correctly, you can use the keys at the top as normal or as F11 to F20. Looks good.. Just thought I'd mention it, by the way has anyone actually used this particular one? I've been considering ordering it. ___________________________________________________________________ | Hey, who else would you expect to be responsible for what I say? | <===================================================================>__ | |..| | Clark W. Coffman (Bitnet) -- NU116215@NDSUVM1 |==> | 1410 12th Ave. N. Apt. 3 (Internet) -- NU116215@VM1.NODAK.EDU |. | | Fargo, N.D. 58102 (Bitnet) -- coffman@plains |..| | 701-232-9531 (Internet) -- coffman@plains.nodak.edu |..| | (UUCP) -- uunet!plains!coffman |. | | --)------ Dagda Mor ------)-- | .| | |. .| |______:-: You Teach Best What You Most Need To Learn. :-:______|.. | | .... .. . .... .. .. ..... . .. ..... ... .... . .. ..... | |______________:-: "Richard Bach" :-:___________________________|
gpitcher@edpmgt.UUCP (Glenn Pitcher) (04/12/90)
In article <4066@plains.UUCP>, coffman@plains.UUCP (Clark Coffman) writes: > > In article <Apr.7.10.15.43.1990.28982@topaz.rutgers.edu> deen@topaz.rutgers.edu (Cinnamon Raisin) writes: > [ > [ I also recently bought a Northgate keyboard ( ya know they must > [ be making a fortune because of the Net News and all of the talk > [ about their keyboards) > [ > .....Deleted.... > [ > [ - The function keys ont the left are great, but more and more > [ computers feature the function keys on top. A combination > [ of both sets on one keyboard would be great. > [ > > Northgate sells a keyboard called the Omnikey Plus ( at least I think > that's the one I'm talking about ) that has the function keys on the left > and the top. If I remember correctly, you can use the keys at the top as > normal or as F11 to F20. Looks good.. > Ya, this is a really good keyboard except that it does not have F1-F12 on the top. It has F1-F10 in the older positions, then F11-F12 right above them and on the top right area of the keyboard, it has F13-F15 (for mainframe compatability). -- Glenn Pitcher UUCP: {crash,ucsd}!edpmgt!gpitcher Programmer/Analyst & INTERNET: I wish Unix Guru in training EDP Management, Inc. * Proud member of Team.Net * =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
MHS108@psuvm.psu.edu (Mark Solsman) (04/12/90)
...there is a place that sells keyboards with the function keys both across the top and down the side. BUS Computer Systems - 3 year warranty. $99 (as seen in February 90 Computer Shopper, page 104) phone 1-800-451-5279. disclaimer: I have nothing to do with this company, just helping. ----- Mark Solsman, Pennsylvania State University, Scranton, Pennsylvania, USA MHS108 @ PSUVM.BITNET MHS108 @ PSUVM.PSU.EDU