kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) (03/02/90)
I advise you not to buy Everex products. I just recently got a Seagate ST-4096 hard disk which was repackaged by Everex. The documentation which came with the disk was incorrect. The software which came with the disk has serious bugs. Following the documentation written by Everex exactly, I was unable to get the drive to work. After calling the vendor, and talking to their technical support people, I learned that the Everex documentation is wrong. They give faulty information on how to configure the jumpers on disk drives. (The correct information will follow later.) After following the instructions from the vendor tech support people, the disk worked. According to the vendor, Everex admits that their documentation is incorrect, but they won't fix it. Note: The "drive select" jumpers should be set as follows: If you have a cable with a twist in it, the DS jumpers on BOTH disks should be set to the second addressable drive. For hard disks, this is drive 2 because addressing starts with DS1; for floppy drives, this is drive 1 because addressing starts with DS0. The drive on the end of the cable with the twist will be the first of the two drives (eg. A:) and the other drive will be the second of the two drives (eg. B:). If you have a cable without a twist in it, and a single disk drive, the DS jumper should be set to the first addressable drive. For hard disks, this is DS1; for floppy drives this is DS0. Using the software provided by Everex led to other working systems in my computer becoming non-functional. After calling the vendor, and talking to their technical support people, I learned that Everex admits that their software does not work. The vendor agreed to ship me a copy of Seagate's software. I haven't received it yet, but I expect it to work just fine. Note: The specific problem I had was: when using the everex device driver "evdisk.sys", my 720k B: drive would not function correctly. You could put in a disk, do a "dir" command, switch disks, do another "dir" command, and see the directory of the first disk. You could "cd" to directories on the first disk which did not exist on the second disk which is actually in the drive. The only (hokey) way out of this problem was to force a drive read fault, to get the "Abort, Retry, or Ignore?" message. This is definitely a bug, and not a feature. (If the evdisk.sys device driver is not used, then 50M of the 80M disk is wasted under any version of DOS previous to 4.0.) Rule 1 Don't buy Everex products. Rule 2 Specify to vendors that you won't accept Everex products. Rule 3 If you buy something, and it turns out to be an Everex product, see rule 1 and rule 2. Return it. Ken Hendrickson N8DGN kjh@usc.edu ...!uunet!usc!pollux!kjh
anderson@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) (03/02/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: [various complaints about Everex products, broadcast to six newsgroups. If you follow up to *my* article, please edit the newsgroups line to direct your response to comp.sys.ibm.pc only.] I don't in any way take issue with the experiences Ken reports, nor with his reporting them. But I think in condemning Everex *as a whole*, he could be exposing himself to litigation. I'm not a lawyer, and free speech lets one say quite a lot. But a person making sweeping generalizations on the basis of quite specific evidence in a more limited context *might* be asking for legal trouble. I have puchased two Everex computers (1800B, AT clones) and still own one of them, and I found both to be *superior* products, by which I mean better than any other clone I could find, even before taking price into account. Of course, since then, more advanced models have come on the market, but based on my own experience I would certainly not hesitate to buy another Everex product. If I bought from another vendor and found that Everex components were used, I would consider that an asset, not a liability. So my experiences are almost diametrically opposite the ones Ken reports. Disclaimer: My employer sells true-blue IBMs and Apple Macintoshes, but I have no connection with our sales programs. My only connection with Everex is as a small-scale customer. ---
singer@uwovax.uwo.ca (03/02/90)
I believe Jess Anderson's comment on the "legality" of complaini about an
experience with Everex is not only wrong but intimidating. If the experience is
true and serves the public through being published, and is not malicious,
regardless of the fact that the person also gives his opinion of the machine,
then I believe the statement is protected. The criticism of Jess Anderson, who
is loyal to his Everex computers, has a chilling effect on the willingness of
others to share their experiences in this public forum. Would you send the same
communication to Consumers'Union, Jess? Coincidentally, I had a similar bad
experience with my Everex Computer and with an Everex Video Card. After much
frustration with them, I sent them back to the distributor who was kind enough
to refund the cost.
-
-----------
Ben Singer Department of Sociology
University of Western Ontario
Singer@uwo.ca London, Ontario
Singer@uwovax.bitnet N6A 5C2
(519) 660-0671 (home)
(519) 679-2111 Ext 5137anderson@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) (03/02/90)
In article <5151.25ed9a77@uwovax.uwo.ca> singer@uwovax.uwo.ca (Ben Singer), whose passion in the matter struck me as very odd, writes: >I believe Jess Anderson's comment on the "legality" of >complaini about an experience with Everex is not only wrong >but intimidating. Pretty large indictment, given the tininess of my putative transgression, wouldn't you say? You're entitled, but I said nothing about legality. Civil liability -- *possible* civil liability was my issue. As for intimidation, anyone intimidated by what I wrote -- for example, you weren't -- may have a problem, but I didn't cause it. So it's a straw person, and that's why I say you sound like a person with a hidden agenda. >If the experience is true and serves the public through >being published, and is not malicious, regardless of the >fact that the person also gives his opinion of the machine, >then I believe the statement is protected. Under those conditions, I would agree the speech is protected (and I referred to that, didn't I?). But in the given case, malice could be the issue. >The criticism of Jess Anderson, who is loyal to his Everex >computers, has a chilling effect on the willingness of >others to share their experiences in this public forum. That's grossly exaggerated nonsense, as you probably know. Loyalty is a concept that doesn't even apply. If there's a chill, it would be in your mind, and as we've seen, you weren't chilled -- on the contrary, you're unnaturally hot under the collar, looks like. Pretty silly, I think, as is your peculiar attachment to my both names. Very odd. >Would you send the same communication to Consumers'Union, >Jess? Excuse me? Now you're familiar? What's Consumer Union have to do with it? Talk about irrelevant ... But since you mention them, you'll notice that they say, "the product we tested behaved like so." They do *not* say, "and therefore we urge you to boycott anything made by those people," because they'd get sued instantly. Now in fact, I did not say that Ken had done anything at all wrong -- you'll recall I was quite specific about that, right? -- but that wholesale blanket comments could result in trouble. Contrary to your allegation of chilling effect, what would dampen valuable discussion would be to have someone get sued thinking they enjoy some kind of immunity because it's Usenet or because they've seen postings like Ken's. >Coincidentally, I had a similar bad experience with my >Everex Computer and with an Everex Video Card. After much >frustration with them, I sent them back to the distributor >who was kind enough to refund the cost. I think any reputable dealer would make an adjustment of that sort in such a case. Anyone who's had a bad experience is doing a public service, I think, to say what happened to them, and that would certainly include what happened in Ken's case or in yours. But if you're urging others to boycott *all* Everex products, including their use by OEMs and so forth, and if Everex could show you damaged their modem or tape drive business, assuming neither of those items was involved in your case, you *could* be in court for that. My point is that people should be responsible for what they say. Includes you, too. I thought your reponse to my quite calm posting was alarmist, argumentative, inflammatory, and no fun at all! So go sit in a cold puddle, and cool your parts. :-)
darcy@druid.uucp (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) (03/02/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: > > I advise you not to buy Everex products. > And I advise you not to take the advice of someone who doesn't know which group to post to. Yes I know he did follow-up to comp.sys.ibm.pc but that only means that those who read one of the above groups but not c.s.i.p will only see the posting of one person without seeing balancing viewpoints from others. If you are in that category then you should either completely ignore Kenneth's rantings or else subscribe to c.s.i.p. to read the whole story. BTW: I have been dealing with Everex for years without having the problems that Kenneth seems to be having. But then I know how to connect a hard drive. Maybe Kenneth should stick to buying complete systems. Follow-ups to comp.sys.ibm.pc -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain (darcy@druid) | Thank goodness we don't get all D'Arcy Cain Consulting | the government we pay for. West Hill, Ontario, Canada | (416) 281-6094 |
wjm@rigel.uucp (23384-mitchell) (03/03/90)
I think its time to say a few good words about Everex Systems and several of their products. I have a 12 MHz 286 machine that contains an Everex Evercom 24 2400 bps modem and a RAM-10000 (a.k.a. EV-158A) 10 MB memory expansion board that has 4 MB of RAM on it. Right now, the memory is divided as 1 MB extended memory being used as a RAM disk, and 3 MB of expanded (EMS) memory. Both work quite well, and have not given me any problems. The memory board has LIM 4.0 software support, although I'm not sure about true LIM 4.0 support in hardware (if you need this feature, check with Everex - my main EMS application, 1-2-3 Release 2.2, doesn't care and works very well). I am also using Everex's RAM disk driver instead of DOS 3.3's VDISK, and am quite pleased with it. This machine has an Award BIOS and is running IBM PC DOS 3.3 (if that is of interest). It also has 1 MB of memory on the system board, which is used as the 640 kB DOS memory and another 384 kB of extended memory (so I have a 1.3 MB RAM disk). Given my experience, I'd certainly buy other Everex products. Regards, Bill Mitchell Disclaimer: I have no connection with Everex Systems except as a satisfied customer. These are strictly my personal opinions and are not necessarily those of my employer or any other person. Everex, Evercom 24, and RAM-10000 are trademarks of Everex Systems Incorporated 1-2-3 is a registered trademark of Lotus Development Corporation IBM is a trademark of International Business Machines
larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (03/06/90)
In article <3264@dogie.macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes: > > I have puchased two Everex computers (1800B, AT clones) and > still own one of them, and I found both to be *superior* > products, by which I mean better than any other clone I > could find, even before taking price into account. We also have purchased maybe 40 of the Everex machines sold under the Club AT name over the last 9 months - and haven't run into problems. We wanted to return 5 286 machines and expected to pay a restocking charge (we had the machines for 90 days and wanted to upgrade to 386 SX machines) and they gave us full credit towards the upgrade. There prices are not the cheapest - but they are good folks to deal with. -- The Northern Star Public Access Unix Site, Notre Dame, Indiana USA uucp: iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry internet: larry@nstar USR HST 219-287-9020 * PEP 219-289-3745 * Hayes V9600 219-289-0286
grinberg@bimacs.BITNET (Dennis Grinberg) (03/06/90)
In article <190@towernet.UUCP> wjm@rigel.uucp (23384-mitchell) writes: >I think its time to say a few good words about Everex Systems and several >of their products. >I have a 12 MHz 286 machine that contains an Everex Evercom 24 2400 bps modem > >Both work quite well, and have not given me any problems. >Bill Mitchell > Bill, can you use telemate with the modem? I (and a friend) have problems with telemate and out everex 24 (his is a +) modems. An everex 1200 and other brands' 2400 modems worked fine with telemate. Dennis Grinberg
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (03/07/90)
larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) writes: >In article <3264@dogie.macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes: >> >> I have puchased two Everex computers (1800B, AT clones) and >> still own one of them, and I found both to be *superior* >> products, by which I mean better than any other clone I >> could find, even before taking price into account. >We also have purchased maybe 40 of the Everex machines sold >under the Club AT name over the last 9 months - and haven't >run into problems. We wanted to return 5 286 machines and >expected to pay a restocking charge (we had the machines for 90 >days and wanted to upgrade to 386 SX machines) and they gave >us full credit towards the upgrade. > >There prices are not the cheapest - but they are good folks >to deal with. Well, I've only used two Everex proucts. Way back when, I had a Everex Graphics edge. It cooked one of my monitors. A friend cooked a mono monitor when he plugged it into the (identical looking) CGA port by mistake. More recently (last June) I bought a Step 386/25. During the first month, I had to replace the motherboard twice, power supply once and Magic I/O card once. That I/O replacement doesn't work anymore now either. I had such bad luck with it, that no one in the branch will take it. Everyone wants one of the new Dells or old Compaqs instead. Also, trying to get through to their technical support was nearly impossible. Being on hold for 15 to 20 minutes while paying long distance is not what I'd call good support. But, when I did get through, they were very helpful. I bought the one system when I decided to give up on Compaq's expensive, unsupported, and not-as-reliable-as-their-reputation-indicates computers. After having so many problems with the Everex, I decided to try Dell. I'm much happier with Dell - though they're not perfect either. It took three tries to get the right monitor for my first System 325. I guess this indicates that we need a larger sampling to get accurate statistics on whether or not manufacturers put out a good product. Maybe things like PC Week's Corporate Satisfaction Poll are the best way to go. -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@wind55.seri.gov Senior Computer Engineer VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
norm@bartek1.uucp (Norm Bartek) (03/09/90)
We originally purchased the Everex 3000A with the hopes of running SCO XENIX. Needless to say, the ads and the sales people all said that the machine would run. As we found out in the long run, nobody at Everex really tested the machine for long term use with XENIX, or so it seems. The symptoms are that you get memory corruption (ie: lots of core dumps) after the machine has been up a day or two. We rebuilt the filesystems several times before abandoning the machine for UNIX related use. If you rebooted a couple of times a day, the machine would work just fine. If you went out of town and left the machine up, you could pretty well be assured that the machine would be very sick when you got back. The problem seems to be related to the 64K cache. We pulled out all the cards and the disk drive, reinstalled them in the new 33MHz DTK motherboard and have been up and running ever since. No more corruption problems, no core dumps, etc. We asked Club AT. They claimed to know nothing of the problem. Everex refused to talk to us since they only deal with resellers like Club AT. We only found out recently that other people were having the same problems. Moral of the story: try before you commit to buying. On another note, we asked Everex for technical help with a cartridge tape driver that we were writing for their 125MB tape drive. We purchased the tech ref manual for $50, but the tech ref manual and support people at Everex could give us no info regarding interrupts and DMA. I later spoke with an Everex marketing person who was here in the Chicago area to rep their products. He said that they don't have time to spend (ie: waste) helping developers. I guess that they don't see indirect sales as being important. So, we dropped support for Everex tape drives. We then called up Wangtek. They sent out full technical and driver docs free of charge along with having an engineer call us and offer help with the driver! Moral of the story: avoid Everex. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bartek Associates, Inc. Comprehensive Computer Consulting Services 1020 Ponderosa USENET: uunet!bartek1!norm, norm@bartek1.uu.net Barrington, IL 60010-5800 PHONE: +1 708 358 1007 FAX: +1 708 358 7241
chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (03/13/90)
According to norm@bartek1.UUCP (Norm Bartek): >We originally purchased the Everex 3000A with the hopes of running SCO XENIX. >Needless to say, the ads and the sales people all said that the machine would >run. As we found out in the long run, nobody at Everex really tested the >machine for long term use with XENIX, or so it seems. If the 3000A is a problem, let me assure everyone that the Step 386/20 is not. Recent revs of the Step have been rock-solid; they run Xenix/386 like champs. -- Chip Salzenberg at ComDev/TCT <chip%tct@ateng.com>, <uunet!ateng!tct!chip> "The Usenet, in a very real sense, does not exist."
eezhao@cybaswan.UUCP (gf.zhao) (05/24/90)
I am a researcrch student in University College of Wales Swansea, Wales. Currently I am trying to program a hareware board using DMA. In the MS-DOS environment, I did not find any available utilities help me to doing this. But I wonder if there is any utilities in BIOS or public domain software which can help me to do my programming, well actually to make my programming easy. Also any useful suggestion is welcome. I am using a 386 machine now and I have got DOS 3.1. Thanks in advance. Zhao e-mail add: eezhao@uk.ac.swan.pyr
david@gisatl.FIDONET.ORG (David Deitch) (05/25/90)
In a message of <May 21 22:06> Kenneth J. Hendrickson (kjh@pollux.usc.edu ) writes: > In February, I bought a Seagate 4096 80M drive that was repackaged > by > Everex. I couldn't get it running at that time because not only was > the > everex documentation skimpy, it was JUST PLAIN WRONG! I had to call > > back the vendor several times to get the correct information. At > that > time, I posted a message saying that the everex documentation was so > bad > that I would never buy another everex product. I have worked with Everex for three years now as a customer and a reseller and had very little problems I could not work out. The documenation and utility software has worked well for me. > Now my disk has crashed. I tried to call everex several times > today, in > order to return it to them and have it fixed or replaced under the > warantee. (It's only 2.5 months old!) Well, I got hung up on. I > got > put on hold indefinitely. When you call, you get one of those > automated > recordings, and you never get to talk to a live person. I NEVER got > > through to a person who could help me. Everex not only has terrible > > documentation, they also have terrible service (actually no service > at > all). I think your case is rare. Whenever I call their tech support, I only go through two automated links to determine I want tech support for what type of product and then I get a person to talk to usually within 5 minutes. I recommend calling late in the afternoon. Often I have called just before 5pm California time and the tech has been willing to stay past office hours to help me. > I recommend that you take your business to other companies, and > avoid > everex. > > I'm not scared of the everex laywers either. You can't sue me for > slander, because everything I have said is true. > > I am sure that several people will post saying that they like everex > > products, or they have not had any problems with everex. My point > in > posting this is to warn you that what happened to me could happen to > > you. I would avoid buying any everex products. > > The vendor that I purchased the disk from has agreed to help me. If > it > wasn't for them, I would never have gotten the disk running in the > first > place, and I wouldn't be able to get it fixed now either. I am sorry you have had a bad experience. For my money Everex has been a reliable company whose products have served me and my clients well. Their tech support has even helped me with problems that resulted from other products not their responsibility. While I don't want this to turn into a success or war story chain, I would like to point out that considering the size of their customer base, an incident like yours is not necessarily representative of their overall service. If every company was boycotted for bad service there would be no business. I even waited three months for Ford to ship a car part they claimed was backordered even though their computers showed it was overstocked! What I recommend is that you write a letter detailing your experience packed full of details to Everex Customer Support Supervisor at 48431 Milmont drive, Freemont Ca. 94538. You might scoff but I know that it would be read and evaluated. David Deitch (GIS) deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org 1:133/411@fidonet -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Deitch - via FidoNet node 1:133/411 UUCP: galbp!gisatl!david INTERNET: david@gisatl.FIDONET.ORG
mike@anomaly.UUCP (Michael P. Deignan) (05/28/90)
In article <753@tharr.UUCP> chris@tharr.UUCP (Chris Allen) writes: >If this was generally the case then how come they didn't go bankrupt >long ago? Any company that gives consistently bad service is not >going to be a success. I am sure that the directors of Everex are aware >of this and I am equally sure that they have many thousands of satisfied >customers. Unfortunately, these types of companies spend thousands on advertising, and unsuspecting consumers don't know any better. So, they end up propagating themselves for quite some time... (I have no connection with, nor experience with, Everex, and only refer to companies who have poor service in general...) MD -- -- UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mike ------------------------------ -- Internet: mike@anomaly.sbs.com -- "From Sick Minds Come -- -- USnail: Box 17220, Esmond, RI 02917 -- Sick Products...." -- -- 1/401/455/0347 Telebit - 1/401/273/4669 Voice ------------------------------