DLV@CUNYVMS1.BITNET (05/27/90)
I've managed to do something truly bizarre to my computer. :) I have a '386 motherboard with lots of Chips and Technologies stuff on it. At boot time, I have the option to run setup/extended setup. While trying to do something, I managed to alter the settings in 'extended setup' part (the bits in various 'C&T CMOS registers') in such a manner that the machine will no longer boot; when I reset it, it goes beep-beep-beep pause beep-beep-beep... Of course my initial reaction was to try to disconnect the battery and let the CMOS memory clear itself; alas, it doesn't seem to be possible on this motherboard!!! (Or at least I don't see how). It's got a 10-year rechargeable battery that's evidently soldered to the board. Whatever skimpy documentation there is does not deal with the question of disconnecting the battery. Does anyone have any suggestions at all??? This is a fascinating problem, variants of this have been undoubtedly discussed here in the past (what would happen if the configuration settings were damanged not ny the bumbling owner, but by a malevolent Trojan Horse; what would happen if you forgot the password on a PS/2). I will not be able to reach the person who sold me the board until Monday, and I'm wide open for suggestions. Thanks, Dimitri Vulis Department of Mathematics City University of New York Graduate Center Proud owner of RUSTEX-L, the Russian TeX and Soviet E-mail mailing list
DLV@CUNYVMS1.BITNET (05/27/90)
My '386 is up and running! Many thanks to Jeff French, Sean, and Tim Beatty! The solution was indeed to hold down the INSERT key while resetting. It reset the values in the C&T config to the defaults, allowing the system to boot. I was so happy to see the BIOS logo! As Jeff pointed out, C&T memory is separate from the configuration CMOS, so if I had cleared that by disconnecting the battery, it would not have helped at all---good thing I did not. Thanks very much yet again (and gee, what a winderful thing this usenet is!) Dimitri Vulis Department of Mathematics City University of New York Graduate Center Internet: DLV%CUNYVMS1.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU BITNET: DLV@CUNYVMS1 UUCP: ((rutgers,gatech)!psuvax1,mcsun,unido)!cunyvms1.bitnet!dlv
pnl@hpfinote.HP.COM (Peter Lim) (05/28/90)
Assuming CMOS RAM screw up is the only problem, try this:
"Hold the INS key down while turning on the computer"
This should reset the CMOS RAM to run at the most basic-reliable-mode.
Also slows things down to a crawl.
Should work if your AMI BIOS is March 89 or later. I think ......
Regards, ## Life is fast enough as it is ........
Peter Lim. ## .... DON'T PUSH IT !! >>>-------,
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... also at: pnl@hpfipnl.HP.COM Singapore 0410. SPLAT !byronl@techbook.UUCP (Byron Lunz) (05/28/90)
In article <9005262017.AA02531@jade.berkeley.edu> DLV@CUNYVMS1.BITNET writes: >I've managed to do something truly bizarre to my computer. :) > >I have a '386 motherboard with lots of Chips and Technologies stuff on it. At >boot time, I have the option to run setup/extended setup. While trying to do >something, I managed to alter the settings in 'extended setup' part (the bits >in various 'C&T CMOS registers') in such a manner that the machine will no >longer boot; when I reset it, it goes beep-beep-beep pause beep-beep-beep... > I just had this same experience this week while trying to do some updates on a friend's PC. I don't know if the chipset was from C/T; the menu said something about the NEAT chipset. Anyway, thanks to a technician at the dealer, I got it to boot again. The secret was to hold down the INSert key while turning on the machine. This caused the CMOS settings to be ignored/reset or something - anyway, it worked. I was then able to change the settings back to correct values. I seem to remember another post describing the same process, but holding the DELete key. You might try both if necessary. Good luck - let us know how it finally works out! Byron Lunz
drp@vpnet.chi.il.us (Douglas Pokorny) (05/28/90)
Here's a new one for you -- hold down the INSert key when powering up -- don't let go until the "memory counting" starts. That <ought> to cause the computer to ignore the extended CMOS ram settings. btw--I own a 386 based system with the C&T chipset & AMI bios, I ran into a simial problem myself while messing around with wait-states etc, then I did something new and exciting!! I read the manual! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Troubleshooting hint number one: | | | | Symptom: No power indicator, no screen display, no beep, no disk | | activity. | | Solution: Make sure your computer is plugged in. | | | | "Just doing my part to help other computer users..." | +-----------------+-----------+----------------------------------------------+ | Douglas Pokorny | drp@vpnet | "I've sold my OS/9 machine and gone 80386.." | +-----------------+-----------+----------------------------------------------+
schulz@ipsi.UUCP (Guenther F. Schulz) (05/28/90)
From article <9005262017.AA02531@jade.berkeley.edu>, by DLV@CUNYVMS1.BITNET: I have a '386 motherboard with lots of Chips and Technologies stuff on it. At boot time, I have the option to run setup/extended setup. While trying to do something, I managed to alter the settings in 'extended setup' part (the bits in various 'C&T CMOS registers') in such a manner that the machine will no longer boot; when I reset it, it goes beep-beep-beep pause beep-beep-beep... Of course my initial reaction was to try to disconnect the battery and let the CMOS memory clear itself; alas, it doesn't seem to be possible on this motherboard!!! (Or at least I don't see how). It's got a 10-year rechargeable battery that's evidently soldered to the board. Whatever skimpy documentation there is does not deal with the question of disconnecting the battery. [...] Thanks, Dimitri Vulis Hey guy, nice to hear from other people that I'm not alone in doing silly things like this... But I'm afraid there's nothing left do to but to solder out the damn battery, - or what about waiting for some years or so until the voltage gets low enough for the CMOS to forget all about your fiddling with internal regs settings... Guenter Schulz.
aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Steve J White) (05/28/90)
This sounds like the video section of the CMOS setup got zapped. This could be a problem with the type of system you have. I seem to recall something about a boot disk for the PS/2 that will 'reset' the setup in order to redo the current configuration. This could be wrong considering I haven't had much experience specificaly with the PS/2 systems. - Steve -- [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] Steve J. White | "A spirit with a vision is a dream [] [] aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu | with a mission." - Rush [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
dsew@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (David Sewell) (05/28/90)
In article <2660c0d9-1d55.2comp.sys.ibm.pc-1@vpnet.chi.il.us> drp@vpnet.chi.il.us (Douglas Pokorny) writes: >Here's a new one for you -- hold down the INSert key when powering up -- don't >let go until the "memory counting" starts. That <ought> to cause the computer >to ignore the extended CMOS ram settings. > >btw--I own a 386 based system with the C&T chipset & AMI bios, I ran into >a simial problem myself while messing around with wait-states etc, then >I did something new and exciting!! I read the manual! Point of the original posting was that the manual *didn't document* the solution. OK, so maybe we should be buying Big Blue or Compaq instead of clones, but here's a sample of what I encountered when I had similar boot problems with my C&T, AMI 386SX. Manual section "Power on the System": "In the unlikely event that errors are encountered, you might need to troubleshoot your system. [!!!] (Please refer to the troubleshooting section in Appendix 1 for details.)" Appendix 1 offers the enormously useful advice of checking cable connections, nothing else remotely relevant except this only: "Cannot reset the computer while pressing the 'reset' button: 1) Turn off your system. Turn it back on after a few seconds. 2) Have your system serviced if item 1 cannot solve the problem." Yeah, sure, we're going to ship our machines back to Chicago or wherever because the !$#@ manual didn't mention pressing the INS key on powerup... Luckily there's comp.sys.ibm.pc! -- | David Sewell, English Dep't, University of Rochester, New York USA | | dsew@uhura.cc.rochester.edu || dsew%uhura.cc.rochester.edu@uorvm |
angelini@apollo.HP.COM (Bob Angelini) (05/29/90)
>I have a '386 motherboard with lots of Chips and Technologies stuff on it. At >boot time, I have the option to run setup/extended setup. While trying to do >something, I managed to alter the settings in 'extended setup' part (the bits >in various 'C&T CMOS registers') in such a manner that the machine will no >longer boot; when I reset it, it goes beep-beep-beep pause beep-beep-beep... Try holding down the DEL key as you power on the system, until the display comes up. This should reset the CMOS to it's default state. Bob Angelini
webb@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Thomas Webb) (05/30/90)
Several people have noted that with AMI BIOSes and C&T NEAT chip sets
holding down the ins key while doing a hard boot will set the chip set
back to its defaults. This is true, however, I have run into a few
cases where it didn't work. If you cannot get back to the setup using
the ins method, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UNSODER YOUR BATTERY. Instead
you need to find the jumper that discharges your cmos ram (also the
jumper that lets you use an external battery), set it to discharge and
quickly power up the machine. Reset the jumper and when you
reboot you should end up in the set-up menu, although it may take a
few trys to get there.
Good luck,
tom.
--
===============================================================================
webb@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.edu "The first duty in life is to assume a pose.
What the second is, no one has yet
discovered." -Oscar Wildephil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (05/30/90)
In article <9005271315.AA06648@jade.berkeley.edu> DLV@CUNYVMS1.BITNET writes: |As Jeff pointed out, C&T memory is separate from the configuration CMOS, so if |I had cleared that by disconnecting the battery, it would not have helped at |all---good thing I did not. Say what! I did not know this. Are you sure? -- Phil Ngai, phil@amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil The Green Movement has Red Roots.
jt19840@tut.fi (Tuomi Jyrki Juhani) (05/30/90)
In article <1990May30.015641.15522@bach.amd.com> phil@pepsi.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >In article <9005271315.AA06648@jade.berkeley.edu> DLV@CUNYVMS1.BITNET writes: >|As Jeff pointed out, C&T memory is separate from the configuration CMOS, so if >|I had cleared that by disconnecting the battery, it would not have helped at >|all---good thing I did not. > >Say what! I did not know this. Are you sure? The term 'C&T memory' is a bit vague in this context. The C&T chipsets have various configuration *registers* that can affect thins like bus timing and memory an I/O wait states. These registers have certain *initial values* a power-on reset. A BIOS for C&T-based 386 motherboard may initialize (and usually does) initialize these registers to some other values. The BIOS looks at certain locations in CMOS RAM to see if there are valid initial values for C&T registers. If not, then the BIOS initialization code loads the C&T registers from a table stored in the BIOS ROM. How do the C&T initial values get stored in the CMOS RAM? Well, usually a BIOS has a special setup for C&T registers (or you can use a C&T program called SETUP386), which accepts user's modifications and writes them in CMOS along with a checksum. I have deducted these facts after disassembling two different AMI BIOSes for C&T/386 motherboards, and I suspect strongly that they are valid also for Phoenix, Award, etc. So, if you could have invalidated the CMOS contents (e.g. by disconnecting the battery), the BIOS would not have used the defaults stored in CMOS, and the system would have booted all right. -- Jyrki Tuomi Internet: jt19840@tutor.tut.fi UUCP: ..mcvax!tut!jt19840