[comp.sys.ibm.pc] DOS 32 Meg limit

aceverj@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Jaap Verhage) (05/29/90)

In article <2381@zipeecs.umich.edu> shim@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Sam Shim) writes:
>
>   A while back, I posted a message stating that DOS has a 32 Meg limit due to
>the fact that the sectors are mapped in the FAT, and that the FAT has room
>for only 65,535 entries (65,535 x 512 bytes = the 32 Meg limit).  This is
>wrong.  The reason for the 32 Meg limit is because with 2 byte sector
>addressing and 512 bytes per sector, DOS can only access 32 Megs of sectors.
>The FAT is a map of CLUSTERS, and not sectors, so theoretically, the FAT
>can map up to 130 Megabytes.  Thanks to John Nelson for pointing out the
>error.
>
Yes, all of this may be true, but the 32 Mb limit has
disappeared with DOS 4.0. I don't know what the limit is now,
but it's certainly more than it was.

kperson@plains.UUCP (Kerry Person) (05/29/90)

In article <446@accucx.cc.ruu.nl> aceverj@accucx.UUCP (Jaap Verhage) writes:
>>
>Yes, all of this may be true, but the 32 Mb limit has
>disappeared with DOS 4.0. I don't know what the limit is now,
>but it's certainly more than it was.


I thought it was the square of the previous limit, since the address now has
twice as many digits.  Or am I all wet?

Kerry Person
(kperson@plains.NoDak.edu)

dmurdoch@watstat.uwaterloo.ca (Duncan Murdoch) (05/29/90)

In article <4915@plains.UUCP> kperson@plains.UUCP (Kerry Person) writes:
>In article <446@accucx.cc.ruu.nl> aceverj@accucx.UUCP (Jaap Verhage) writes:
>>>
>>Yes, all of this may be true, but the 32 Mb limit has
>>disappeared with DOS 4.0. I don't know what the limit is now,
>>but it's certainly more than it was.
>
>
>I thought it was the square of the previous limit, since the address now has
>twice as many digits.  Or am I all wet?

It's not quite the square - other things get in the way.  It used to be that
64K of sectors limited your disk to 32 Megs.  Now there's effectively no
limit on the number of sectors, but there's still a limit of 64K (minus some
special codes) on the number of clusters.  This means that you can't go
bigger than 128 Meg with 2K clusters, 256 Meg with 4K, etc.  I don't know
the largest cluster size DOS 4 can handle, but I doubt you'd want the 
32 megabyte clusters on a disk with (64K)**2 sectors.  (On the other hand,
on a 2 terabyte disk, it might not matter.)

By the way, does anyone know a reliable test for whether a particular copy
of DOS can handle/requires the new long sector numbers in absolute read and
write?  Zenith DOS 3.30 Plus can and does on big disks, but just about every
other 3.30 (which all look identical if you just ask for a version number)
can't.  I think it's safe to say that any version 3.31 or higher can use
the new calls; is this true?

Duncan Murdoch

tea6219@evtprp0b.UUCP (Terry E. Acker) (05/30/90)

In article <446@accucx.cc.ruu.nl> aceverj@accucx.UUCP (Jaap Verhage) writes:
>Yes, all of this may be true, but the 32 Mb limit has
>disappeared with DOS 4.0. I don't know what the limit is now,
>but it's certainly more than it was.

The limit with DOS 4.0 is 2G.  Also, I know that Compaq DOS 3.31 has the
ability to have partitions up to 512Mb.  I am currently using Compaq DOS
3.31 with a 40Mg Microscience with no problems whatsoever.

cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gordon Hlavenka) (05/31/90)

>...but I doubt you'd want the 
>32 megabyte clusters on a disk with (64K)**2 sectors.  (On the other hand,
>on a 2 terabyte disk, it might not matter.)

But this would pretty much eliminate file fragmentation...

Gordon S. Hlavenka                          cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us

DISCLAIMER:  He's lying.

pnl@hpfinote.HP.COM (Peter Lim) (05/31/90)

> 
> I thought it was the square of the previous limit, since the address now has
> twice as many digits.  Or am I all wet?
> 
You are all wet  :-).  Previously the limit was 32 MB and now it is
512 MB (and 32 MB squared is a lot bigger than 512 MB). That's all I
konw about DOS 4.0. --- I never use it.

> Kerry Person
> (kperson@plains.NoDak.edu)
> ----------


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kperson@plains.UUCP (Kerry Person) (05/31/90)

In article <19450060@hpfinote.HP.COM> pnl@hpfinote.HP.COM (Peter Lim) writes:
>> 
>You are all wet  :-).  Previously the limit was 32 MB and now it is
>512 MB (and 32 MB squared is a lot bigger than 512 MB). That's all I
>konw about DOS 4.0. --- I never use it.
>
>
>Regards,                       ## Life is fast enough as it is ........
>

Whoa, now!  Are we sure about this?  I thought it was at least in the Gig's!
512 MB sounds way too small.  Seems I remember it was either 2 or 4 GB.

Kerry Person
(kperson@plains.NoDak.edu)

kdq@demott.COM (Kevin D. Quitt) (06/01/90)

In article <4933@plains.UUCP> kperson@plains.UUCP (Kerry Person) writes:
>In article <19450060@hpfinote.HP.COM> pnl@hpfinote.HP.COM (Peter Lim) writes:
>>> 
>>You are all wet  :-).  Previously the limit was 32 MB and now it is
>>512 MB (and 32 MB squared is a lot bigger than 512 MB). That's all I
>>konw about DOS 4.0. --- I never use it.
>>
>>
>>Regards,                       ## Life is fast enough as it is ........
>>
>
>Whoa, now!  Are we sure about this?  I thought it was at least in the Gig's!
>512 MB sounds way too small.  Seems I remember it was either 2 or 4 GB.
>

	(Note: the following is not a flame of the above persons).

    Who cares? Most of my files, and I suspect yours, are farily small,
with a couple of large ones thrown in.  Back in the bad old days when
clusters were 4K, I found a way to force them to 2K, and gained 30% of
my disk back. 

    What would be useful would be to have more clusters, not larger
clusters.  The latter just waste space and fool you into thinking you've
got a lot more storage than you actually do. 
-- 

 _
Kevin D. Quitt         Manager, Software Development    34 12 N  118 27 W
DeMott Electronics Co. 14707 Keswick St.   Van Nuys, CA 91405-1266
VOICE (818) 988-4975   FAX (818) 997-1190  
MODEM (818) 997-4496 Telebit PEP last      demott!kdq   kdq@demott.com

      96.37% of the statistics used in arguments are made up.

dlow@hpspcoi.HP.COM (Danny Low) (06/01/90)

>Whoa, now!  Are we sure about this?  I thought it was at least in the Gig's!
>512 MB sounds way too small.  Seems I remember it was either 2 or 4 GB.
>Kerry Person

There is a limit in the BIOS that limits disk size to about 512MB.
This lower BIOS limit overrides the higher DOS 4.01 limit. 

			   Danny Low
    "Question Authority and the Authorities will question You"
	   Valley of Hearts Delight, Silicon Valley
     HP SPCD   dlow%hpspcoi@hplabs.hp.com   ...!hplabs!hpspcoi!dlow 

marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (06/02/90)

To quote my Dell MS-DOS User's Reference manual in the section on the
FDISK command:

   "If you want to use the entire hard disk (up to 2 gigabytes) for
   MS-DOS, press the ENTER key to accept the default selection (Y)."
--
Marshall L. Buhl, Jr.                EMAIL: marshall@seri.gov
Senior Computer Engineer             VOICE: (303)231-1014
Wind Research Branch                 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO  80401-3393
Solar Energy Research Institute      Solar - safe energy for a healthy future

dlow@hpspcoi.HP.COM (Danny Low) (06/02/90)

>To quote my Dell MS-DOS User's Reference manual in the section on the
>FDISK command:
>
>   "If you want to use the entire hard disk (up to 2 gigabytes) for
>   MS-DOS, press the ENTER key to accept the default selection (Y)."

If you have a hard disk greater than 528,482,304 bytes, try writing
beyond that with INT 13H Function 0BH (Write disk). If your BIOS
is IBM compatible, it will not allow you to do this. You need an
non-BIOS hard disk driver to write beyond the 528MB limit or
have a BIOS that is not IBM compatible.

			   Danny Low
    "Question Authority and the Authorities will question You"
	   Valley of Hearts Delight, Silicon Valley
     HP SPCD   dlow%hpspcoi@hplabs.hp.com   ...!hplabs!hpspcoi!dlow