mcdonald@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (03/20/88)
I'm looking for advice on using our new PS/2-80. I want to use the full 396 mode of the processor under DOS. I have heard of four products that allow this, an assembler from Phar Lap ,a C compiler from Metaware, and a C and a Fortran from Micro-Way. First, are there any others? I need to be able to write large ( >640 k programs) without having to worry about segments. The 386 is clearly able to do this, but can it under those tools? Anyone out there tried them? In particular I need to get full access to the screen memory, IO addresses, and, very important, field interrupts in my application code (assembly is ok; I don't need C for that). Those products are super expensive, and I don't want to pay only to not have them work. Doug McDonald (mcdonald@uiucuxe)
weave@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Weaver) (03/31/88)
I'm searching for a 386 box to run Interactive Systems Unix. I plan
to do development in support of a law office running Interactive Systems
Unix on an AT&T 386 machine.
-What is an adequate configuration? Interactive Systems recommends
>= 4 M of ram and >= 40 M hard disk. Are their recommendations valid?
-How does Interactive's Unix compare (in price, performance, support etc)
with the Microport and Bell Technology versions, and with SCO Xenix for
that matter? Would it make sense to do development on say Microport
Unix or SCO Xenix when my primary customer is using Interactive Unix?
-What is a good machine to buy? Obviously, cost is a primary consideration.
Has anyone had experience with the Northgate or Quantus 386 machines? Their
advertised prices are lower than most.
Thanks
Jim Weavernorstar@tnl.UUCP (Daniel Ray) (04/01/88)
In article <4219@ihlpf.ATT.COM>, weave@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Weaver) writes: > -What is a good machine to buy? Obviously, cost is a primary consideration. > Has anyone had experience with the Northgate or Quantus 386 machines? Their > advertised prices are lower than most. > > Thanks > Jim Weaver Hi all, this is my first USENET posting ever. Let me tell you about the Quantus MT/386 machine. When I had decided to purchase a UNIX system and all that goes with it, due to financial constraints I wanted to go mail order wherever possible. The Quantus (from Quantus Micro Systems, Spofford, NH) was the only machine that was cheap as well as having an 80meg drive and 2megs of RAM, so I was sold, not knowing any better (sometimes I do the smartest things! :@). They were real nice over the phone, and I drove down to their plant (since I live in Vt), and paid $3760 in hard cash and picked up my machine. At the time I was still waiting for the SCO XENIX software to arrive, so all I could do was to experiment by running some MS-DOS stuff I had. Exactly 8 hours after I turned it on, the machine crashed. It lost the CMOS setup configuration that told it about the hard disk, the time, etc. I also discovered that Quantus had forgot to give me the security key *and* the setup program with the machine. So I called them and asked for it, thinking that running SETUP would fix things. A week later, it came in the mail, but when I ran it it didn't work. Somehow the controller card flaked out. I decided that I wanted my money back. So I returned the machine, but they said that I'd have to wait 30 business days before I could get a refund. That time has passed, and still no word from them. They have both my machine and my money. Very soon now I shall take them to court. When I was down there waiting to give back my machine, there were two other customers in there waiting to get their machines fixed. Turns out that they bought the 286 machine, and each, independently had disk failures within a week of ownership. The moral of the story: DON'T BUY A QUANTUS! Btw, I never encountered such a mean (substitute more potent descriptor here) group of people, when I wanted a refund. I mean its only money, no need to get so bad. Oh well. northstar (of The Northern Lights) uunet!uvm-gen!tnl!norstar %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "All things I thought I knew, but now confess: the more I know I know, I know the less" -- Robert Owen
davidsen@steinmetz.steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (04/02/88)
In article <4219@ihlpf.ATT.COM> weave@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Weaver) writes: | I'm searching for a 386 box to run Interactive Systems Unix. I plan | to do development in support of a law office running Interactive Systems | Unix on an AT&T 386 machine. | | -What is an adequate configuration? Interactive Systems recommends | >= 4 M of ram and >= 40 M hard disk. Are their recommendations valid? I certainly wouldn't go any smaller than that. | | -How does Interactive's Unix compare (in price, performance, support etc) | with the Microport and Bell Technology versions, and with SCO Xenix for | that matter? Bell TEch is selling UNIX so you can use their hardware, the real thrust of their sales. About the only thing they really support is the device drivers which they write. | Would it make sense to do development on say Microport | Unix or SCO Xenix when my primary customer is using Interactive Unix? I wouldn't do development on anything else due to postability problems. I evaluated the IS C compiler for a business, and my opinion is that it's a real piece of... NO! I am trying not to do flames, just say that I was not impressed, because about a third of the working programs I tried to compile caused the compiler to crash (not complain, like core dump). You would be ahead to use the compiler which the customer has, or to look for a version of Greenhills for IN/ix to use for development, and move the binaries. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
dee@linus.UUCP (David E. Emery) (04/04/88)
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.47.1 of Sun Aug 2 1987 on faron (berkeley-unix) Quantus went under last week. there was a front page article on the founder, who's had several other failures, in the Manchester NH Sunday News. I strongly suggest you contact the Attorney General in N.H. to get on the list of creditors. I almost bought a quantus machine. Now I'm glad I resisted the temptation... dave emery emery@mitre-bedford.arpa faron!dee
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (04/05/88)
My friend's buddy bought two '386 machines from Quantus. He only received one before the company went into receivership. Now he's out about $2k for the machine he didn't get. The mahcine he did get came sans setup disk, so it is dead in the water until we can find some sort of workable BIOS for it. Moral of the story: try before you buy! If the advertising sounds too good to be ture -- it is! --Bill
dick@slvblc.UUCP (Dick Flanagan) (04/06/88)
In article <4219@ihlpf.ATT.COM> weave@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Weaver) writes: > -How does Interactive's Unix compare (in price, performance, support etc) > with the Microport and Bell Technology versions, and with SCO Xenix for > that matter? Would it make sense to do development on say Microport > Unix or SCO Xenix when my primary customer is using Interactive Unix? If you look closely at Microport's Unix, you will see that it actually is Interactive's Unix with uPort mods. Under those circumstances, the two should be fairly compatible. Dick -- Dick Flanagan, W6OLD GEnie: FLANAGAN UUCP: ...!ucbvax!ucscc!slvblc!dick Voice: +1 408 336 3481 Internet: slvblc!dick@ucscc.UCSC.EDU LORAN: N037 04.7 W122 04.6 USPO: PO Box 155, Ben Lomond, CA 95005
hsu@santra.UUCP (Heikki Suonsivu) (04/07/88)
In article <10208@steinmetz.steinmetz.ge.com> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: >In article <4219@ihlpf.ATT.COM> weave@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Weaver) writes: >| -What is an adequate configuration? Interactive Systems recommends >| >= 4 M of ram and >= 40 M hard disk. Are their recommendations valid? > > I certainly wouldn't go any smaller than that. I was running microport in 1.6 M or ram. It worked but was painfully slow. Now I have 3.6 M and it still feels slow when doing lots of compilations on the background. Bottleneck does seem to be hard disk, not CPU or memory. Comparing to my old convergent miniframe, speedup is not much, and after two compilations in both machines miniframe with one meg of memory (swap, swap) feels a bit nicer to use, it has better response time, swapped out emacs comes back quicker, and so on, though timing compilations gives worse results. I agree with both recommendations, and there is still more speedup available with more memory and faster disks. >problems. I evaluated the IS C compiler for a business, and my opinion >is that it's a real piece of... NO! I am trying not to do flames, just I have compiled gnu emacs, some public domain stuff floating around and few hundred kb of my own source form microport without any problems, I was surprised as I expected much worse as an owner of V/AT. I had some funny things happening when I had lots of stuff in memory, probably I run out of swap as I had gnuemacs in all windows, two compilations and lint going on, and killing other emacses cured the problem (telling me out of memory could be nicer instead of syntax error in the end of all files or /bin/as exiting with random values, though). *= problem with chars which is documented in the manuals occured once when compiling gnu emacs (etags) and fns.c compiled with -O made emacs to core dump when called without parameters. No other problems in cc has occured yet. My own code is quite portable as I have to make it run on PCs also. cc is not specially fast, it beats miniframe 3:1 but that's not too well for 3.6M:1M and 80386@16MHz@1w:68010@10MHz@0w, uport has more buffer memory than miniframe core in total !-) (hard disks have same size and speed). This may be because of disk io, olivetti probably thought that people would be using a mess dos anyway so why bother with fast hard disk io.
dinda@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Peter Dinda) (07/11/89)
Can I have some opinions on the following 386 makers and their systems? -Northgate -Zeos -Zenith -Dataworld Peter A. Dinda (also dinda@GARFIELD.cs.wisc.edu)
michelbi@oregon.uoregon.edu (Michel Biedermann) (07/11/89)
In article <2019@dogie.macc.wisc.edu>, dinda@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Peter Dinda) writes: > Can I have some opinions on the following 386 makers and their > systems? You best bet is to get a hold of PC Mag (Vol.8 number 10 of May 30, 1989). It claims having reviewed EVERY 80386 machine currently on the market. It appears that you are involved with a university (staff, faculty, student) so you will be able to purchase Zenith machines at between 42-48% off list price (i.e. $3,099 for mono VGA, 40Mb HD, 4Mb RAM, Windows/386, mouse, etc) Michel Biedermann michelbi@oregon.uoregon.edu U. of Oregon ZENITH Student Rep.
nfs@notecnirp.Princeton.EDU (Norbert Schlenker) (07/13/89)
In article <5171@oregon.uoregon.edu> michelbi@oregon.uoregon.edu (Michel Biedermann) writes: ]In article <2019@dogie.macc.wisc.edu], dinda@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Peter Dinda) writes: ]] Can I have some opinions on the following 386 makers and their ]] systems? ] ]You best bet is to get a hold of PC Mag (Vol.8 number 10 of May 30, 1989). ]It claims having reviewed EVERY 80386 machine currently on the market. ]... ] --------- OUTRAGEOUS COMMERCIAL HYPE ELIDED --------- ]Michel Biedermann michelbi@oregon.uoregon.edu ]U. of Oregon ]ZENITH Student Rep. PC Magazine fibbed on the front cover. They reviewed oodles of machines, and probably caught just about everything, but they neglected to mention their omission of portables. Given the small number of such machines, I would think they could have added another ten pages to their immensely long (and hence unreadable) article. It is a reasonable reference, though. Norbert
hjg@amms4.UUCP (Harry Gross) (07/15/89)
In article <5171@oregon.uoregon.edu> michelbi@oregon.uoregon.edu (Michel Biedermann) writes: >In article <2019@dogie.macc.wisc.edu>, dinda@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Peter Dinda) writes: >> Can I have some opinions on the following 386 makers and their >> systems? >You best bet is to get a hold of PC Mag (Vol.8 number 10 of May 30, 1989). >It claims having reviewed EVERY 80386 machine currently on the market. ^^^^^ Not quite. They did review ALOT of machines, but by no means all of them. In fact, they specifically mentioned a couple that did not get reviewed, right in the front of the article. However, it is an _excellent_ starting point for research. After reading a lot of stuff on the net, though, I would augment the material presented by trying to speak with people who have experienced the machines I ultimately was interested in. It seems that 'the average guy on the street' sometimes gets different service, etc. from the manufacturer/marketer than PC-MAGAZINE. This is not intended as a flame against anyone or any company, just an observation. :-) -- Harry Gross | reserved for | something really Internet: hjg@amms4.UUCP (we're working on registering)| clever - any UUCP: {jyacc, rna, bklyncis}!amms4!hjg | suggestions?
doug@bdt.UUCP (Doug Asherman) (07/08/90)
I find myself in market for a 386 right now, and have found a 386sx (upgradeable to a regular 386) that sounds like a good deal. However, I have some questions on it: 1) It has an Excel motherboard. This, I believe, was made by Excel in Sunnyvale, CA. Does anyone know anything about these? 2) The ad states that the motherboard has an "EMS Device On Board." I've heard rumors that these can cause compatibility problems that software memory managers won't, and that you can't disable them. Is this true? 3) I asked about replacing the hard disk (65MB) with a larger one (80MB), and was told that the 80MB drive the store had in stock was a Seagte SCSI drive. I wasn't aware that there was such a beast (a friend of mine says that there isn't, and the salesmen if proabably mistaken. And for you folks in and around San Francisco: If there's anyone out there who knows of a reputable place in the SF Bay Area where I could get a decent 386SX for about two grand, I'd appreciate hearing about it. It would be even better if it were in the East Bay. Lastly: if your suggestion would be to try mail order, I'd really rather not. Thanks anyway. -- .signature: permission denied
jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) (07/09/90)
doug@bdt.UUCP (Doug Asherman) writes: >(upgradeable to a regular 386) that sounds like a good deal. >However, I have some questions on it: > >1) It has an Excel motherboard. This, I believe, was made by Excel >in Sunnyvale, CA. Does anyone know anything about these? Never heard of Excel out of the context of being used as a reference to a Microsoft software product. >2) The ad states that the motherboard has an "EMS Device On Board." >I've heard rumors that these can cause compatibility problems that >software memory managers won't, and that you can't disable them. >Is this true? My 386SX supports LIM EMS 4.0 in hardware. You set up the page frames, etc. from the BIOS set up routine. I don't see any problems with having this on the motherboard since the 386(SX) can handle it without the help of an EMS board. My motherboard manual even goes into how to set up the EMS for DesqView. I think you've been misinformed or your resources have only had experience with poor quality or not-so-compatable 386(SX) motherboards. >3) I asked about replacing the hard disk (65MB) with a larger one >(80MB), and was told that the 80MB drive the store had in stock was >a Seagte SCSI drive. I wasn't aware that there was such a beast (a >friend of mine says that there isn't, and the salesmen if proabably >mistaken. Seagate has made SCSI drives for years. There are two SCSI 80 Mb drives out there. The ST296N (5.25" HH) and ST1096N (3.5" HH). Your friend is mistaken. And if your friend wishes to continue to argue, he can call Seagate and request information from the 24 hr voice mail database. Seagate also owns Imprimis now, which is a major source of the high end, high capacity SCSI drives. >And for you folks in and around San Francisco: > >If there's anyone out there who knows of a reputable place in >the SF Bay Area where I could get a decent 386SX for about two grand, >I'd appreciate hearing about it. It would be even better if it were >in the East Bay. I'll sell you mine for $1,000. I paid $300 for it, you should pay no more than $400 for a new 386SX motherboard. The average price I've seen is about $350 for them. But if you want mine which works just fine, no problems at all, I'll let you have it for the special introductory price of $1000. I'll even deliver it to your door from San Diego. // JCA /* **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* ** Flames : /dev/null | Small memory model only for ** ARPANET : crash!pnet01!jca@nosc.mil | Unix? Get the (*bleep*) out ** INTERNET: jca@pnet01.cts.com | of here! ** UUCP : {nosc ucsd hplabs!hd-sdd}!crash!pnet01!jca **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* */
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (07/09/90)
In article <3698@bdt.UUCP> doug@bdt.UUCP (Doug Asherman) writes: | 2) The ad states that the motherboard has an "EMS Device On Board." | I've heard rumors that these can cause compatibility problems that | software memory managers won't, and that you can't disable them. | Is this true? If this is the Chips & Technology "NEAT chipset" is does have EMS support, it can be disabled, and it doesn't interfere with DOS or UNIX. | | 3) I asked about replacing the hard disk (65MB) with a larger one | (80MB), and was told that the 80MB drive the store had in stock was | a Seagte SCSI drive. I wasn't aware that there was such a beast (a | friend of mine says that there isn't, and the salesmen if proabably | mistaken. I can't find my list of Seagate drives right now (I just finished repartitioning a hard disk), but there is one close to 80, in the 76-84MB range. Someone might have said 80 and had a little rounding error. | | If there's anyone out there who knows of a reputable place in | the SF Bay Area where I could get a decent 386SX for about two grand, | I'd appreciate hearing about it. It would be even better if it were | in the East Bay. Computers are one of the things you should buy with an interest in support. Getting one from a local guy who just assembles parts (even a guy like me who uses the best ones he can find) is a risk compared to buying from an established national firm who have been in business long enough to have established a reputation. Two mail order firms I would recommend are "Gateway 2000" and "PC Designs." I got my first 386 from PC Designs in 1986 (yes some of us have had them a long time) and they stood behind it when it was damaged in shipping then, and they supplied a new ROM set for the motherboard this year, still at the same 800 number for tech support. Gateway also has a good reputation for support, although they're only a few years old. If you want to buy local, be *very* sure the parts are brand name! That way you can probably get support from someone even if the dealer decides to sell used cars next year. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
news@udenva.cair.du.edu (netnews) (07/09/90)
the seagate st-296n is @80 megs, scsi jumping from 65 to 80 megs is a pretty puny step. unless you keep the 65 also.
poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (07/10/90)
In article <3698@bdt.UUCP> doug@bdt.UUCP (Doug Asherman) writes: >I find myself in market for a 386 right now, and have found a 386sx >(upgradeable to a regular 386) that sounds like a good deal. >However, I have some questions on it: > >1) It has an Excel motherboard. This, I believe, was made by Excel >in Sunnyvale, CA. Does anyone know anything about these? > >2) The ad states that the motherboard has an "EMS Device On Board." >I've heard rumors that these can cause compatibility problems that >software memory managers won't, and that you can't disable them. >Is this true? > >3) I asked about replacing the hard disk (65MB) with a larger one >(80MB), and was told that the 80MB drive the store had in stock was >a Seagte SCSI drive. I wasn't aware that there was such a beast (a >friend of mine says that there isn't, and the salesmen if proabably >mistaken. The salesman is mistaken. Seagate does indeed have a complete line of SCSI drives. Many of which were inherited when they acquired the CDC/Imprimis line. An ST number that ends in 'N' is a SCSI drive. (ie ST277N). A SCSI disk subsystem is not a bad choice if you get a good controller. The el-cheapo "adapter" such as the ST-01 is not nearly as good as a true SCSI controller like an Adaptec AHA1542B or Western Digital FASST. I can get 3Mbytes per second from my AHA1542B reading out of disk cache. A Wren IV can sustain greater than 1.3Mbytes per second to and from the disk (no cache). No MFM or RLL controller will go that fast. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (07/10/90)
In article <3698@bdt.UUCP> doug@bdt.UUCP (Doug Asherman) writes: >3) I asked about replacing the hard disk (65MB) with a larger one >(80MB), and was told that the 80MB drive the store had in stock was >a Seagte SCSI drive. I wasn't aware that there was such a beast (a >friend of mine says that there isn't, and the salesmen if proabably >mistaken. > Sorry, I meant to say the the salesman is correct, and your friend is mistaken. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
spengler@lance.tis.llnl.gov (Tom Spengler) (07/12/90)
You might want to check USM Distributors in Fremont (or US Mach in S.F., but haven't dealt with them.) I recently bought a couple of full size 386 boxes from USM, and a 386SX for a friend. The 386SX box was configured like this 1 meg RAM 67 Meg HDD 3 1/2" HD Floppy VGA adapter and monochrome monitor Minitower case for $1250. They use name brand components, too, not noname clone stuff. For example, our 386 boxes have Orchid motherboards, Adaptec disk controller, Archive tape drives, Video 7 VGA, etc. We had problems with the original RLL hard disk combo and ISC 386/ix v2.0.2. They worked diligently with me (though I think the problem was really with ISC UNIX) until the problems were sorted out. Really good customer support. If interested, call Danny at (415) 623-9040. (He is knolwledgeable for a salesman, and seems to quote the best prices. You can haggle, too.) And, of course, I have no affiliation with USM Distributors other than being a highly satisfied customer. Tom Spengler (spengler@tis.llnl.gov)