kevin@ncspm.UUCP (06/03/87)
Well, I guess that I have received all the information I am going to about Simultask on the 6300+, so here is the summary of what I got. First of all, I got more complaints about the 6300+ itself than I did about Simultask. These complaints can in two varieties: 1) 16-bit slots not AT compatible, forcing the purchase of the AT&T Memory card, which is expensive. 2) Hard disks are hard to change, because of limited choices in the BIOS ROM. [ I personally think there ought to be a way to work around this using a software format program, with drivers for Simultask, Anyone know of such a thing? ]. The overall feeling for the operating system itself was very possitive, it runs "real" System 5.2 Unix, although not as fast as the mini at work, but then I did not pay as much for the 6300+ as the office paid for the mini. The biggest surprise for me was that people found the Simultask implementation much cleaner than Microport, which surprised me since Simultask is Microport with the DOS stuff added by Locus Computing. Included are the responses I got. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ...!seismo!wlbr!wlbreng1!att6300!rich The UNIX System 5.2 running on the AT&T 6300+ is called "Simultask". The real name of that OS is "Merge/286". Merge is sold by Locus Computing Inc. of Santa Monica, CA and AT&T resells Merge as Simultask. Merge/286 is a combination of UNIX System 5.2.0 and MS-DOS 3.1. Locus develops the MS-DOS capability under UNIX which includes the drivers which they place in the kernel. They in turn OEM their DOS drivers to Microport. Microport sells their UNIX/DOS system under the name "TeamDos". Given this set of circumstances, where do you suppose Locus gets their UNIX system from ? If you're saying "Microport?!" to yourself you're right. They OEM their products to each other and they each sell their own version of (basically) the same system. The difference is that Locus is more concerned about quality. They are VERY MUCH more concerned. The quality of about everything that I've seen come out of Microport is roughly 70 % of production quality or the equivalent of a first beta release. So, I would estimate that Locus cleans up the bugs from their system before they turn it over to AT&T. I wish Locus would sell their UNIX back to Microport so that they could have a higher quality product! However, a flaw with Simultask is the same of Microport, i.e. it only supports small and large model. This may not be a big factor for you however. I had a 6300+ for about a month or so on loan from AT&T to pound the life out of. It held up damn well! I ported a grunge of Sys5 code to it to see if the compiler would die. I usually end up finding "non- professionalisms" in the code (grrrrr...large model pointers; 16 bit integers...grumble). As I said, however, the quality of Simultask is a lot better. And the DOS option is really neat! There is a program, I think it's called "lyrmgr" (layer manager) that gives you a menu to select either a DOS shell or a UNIX shell. First, you select DOS (it gives you a C> prompt; the "virtual" DOS hard disk) and then you hit the "sys req" (hot) key and it redisplays the lyrmgr menu. Now you select a UNIX shell (it gives you a $ and an indication at the bottom of the screen that you are in a subshell). Now by hitting the hot key, you can toggle back and forth between DOS and UNIX. Pretty slick. The problems that I discovered were that the system didn't appreciate programs that didn't do BIOS calls (ill- behaved). The system would hang, but by hitting ctrl-alt-del, the system would return you to UNIX. All in all, Simultask is a good system. This is because it was written explicitly for the 6300+. In fact, I'm running UNIX System 5.2.0 on my 6300 which I'm writing this correspondance on (that's right, an 8086 machine). The OS is called IN/ix and is produced by Interactive Systems Inc. of Santa Monica, CA. It also was written explicitly for the 6300, therefore, it works really well. Have fun with micro-UNIX. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: wmh@mtuxo.UUCP (w.hyland) AT&T has announced a new version of the PC6300 PLUS UNIX Operating System with Simul-Task known as Version 2.5. This new version contains numerous enhancements over the previous Version 2.0 system. For example, Simul-Task will now support MS-DOS 3.2 in addition to 3.1. MS-DOS applications running under Simul-Task may now make full use of the Intel Above Board and the AT&T Display Enhancement Board. Enhancements to the UNIX system include improved performance through better memory management techniques and expanded swap space, kernel level support for Starlan, and full support of Hayes-compatible modems including the AT&T 4000 series modems. Version 2.5 has also improved the reliability of print spooling, floating point emulation, file system backups, named pipe communications between UNIX and MS-DOS tasks, clock performance, and bad track handling. The Version 2.5 software maintains full compatibility with the existing Version 2.0 UNIX Software Development Set and with the applications already developed to UNIX on the PC 6300 PLUS. Moreover, software written to UNIX on the PC 6300 PLUS will be binary compatible with AT&T's UNIX System V Release 3 Operating System being developed for 80386-based workstations providing users with a smooth upgrade path and protection of software investments. Version 2.5 software upgrades are available to existing customers at a promotional price of $99. plus tax until July 31st, 1987. After this date, the full list price of $295 will apply. For details on this promotion, please contact the PC6300 PLUS UNIX/Simul-Task Upgrade Coordinator at 1- 800-432-6600. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ...!seismo.CSS.GOV!uunet!rosevax.Rosemount.COM!dave (Dave Marquardt) I ran Simultask for a while, and the biggest problem with it was that it really ate up the system. I only had 1 megabyte of RAM installed, so that might have something to do with it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ...!seismo!stc-auts!kak (Kris Kugel) There is an overhead penalty for using Simultask - the Norton Utilities benchmark rates the cpu 8. runnining DOS only and 6. running DOS under simultask. This matches my perception of actual speed. (numbers represent multiples of old pc speed, so bare 6300 is 8 times as fast as pc) The UNIX in general is dissappointing; it seems to be both slow, and has some nasty marketing characteristics: * NO C compiler/lex/yacc/lint/ld etc. * NO nroff/troff/ditroff/man * no /src (well, I wasn't really expecting this one....) * 63 i/o buffer limit (we'll see the significance of this later...) Most of the software packages are fairly expensive (~$400) so you have to spend a considerable amount of money to get a reasonable system, and the documentation is split up the same way -- for example, the "find" manual pages is missing, and is in a manual you have to order separately (along with who knows what else). The hardware itself, or at least the version I got, has a fairly slow hard disk (read "standard for dos, slow for UNIX), and if you partition it for 5 megs for dos (recommended), there is barely enough room for anything (I bit the bullet and got the Programmer's Development package, and without much other stuff on the system, I've only got 3 megs left) and the disk access seems *slow*. You can't really speed throughput up much, because there is a 63 buffer limit. some normal hardware improvements are expensive for the following reason: the box is smaller than a normal AT, so some boards don't physicaly fit, and the buss connectors are in different locations than on regular AT's. the memory boards that AT&T sells are more expensive than the normally available boards for the AT (~$500/2 meg board with 500k installed). The DES board, which should allow you to improve the access to the high-resolution graphics monitor, can't be accessed under UNIX in the current release. (at least the hotline claims it can't be) Simultask/Dos incompatibilities: utilities that color the screen don't always work right. the norton sa (screen attributes) utility can't set the screen color, and you can't run FANSI-CONSOLE during Simultask. (unix vi has snow due to the way the system handles the vidio) Good things: The machine seems like it was designed to be a very good machine to run DOS. it has a nice keyboard, monitor, and floppy drive (writes 512 that can be read on pc's, AND 1.2meg) the Simultask allows you to access the UNIX filesystem while under DOS, and some other stuff like that. The hotline support that comes with the machine (one year) seems to be pretty good. Notes: Supposedly, AT&T is comming out with a new release of the OS. I would hope that it would fix the buffer problem and DES board problem, as well as some DOS incompability problems. I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND calling AT&T and finding what the upgrade cost will be before buying the release that I have - it may be worth your while to wait. [ There is a new version of Simultask, see above ] additional comment: less my last comments be taken too negatively, I really like having a REAL system V instead of some artificial unix. I am mostly dissappointed because I bought the system early, had to wait for everything, paid very high prices for everything, and expect to have to spend a lot more money get the system to where I want it. having invested over $10k for the system (with printer and modem and AT&T boards) I was kinda expecting more.... perhaps with the "new, MUCH cheaper prices" and the new os the system will have a lot better proformance/cost ratio for new buyers. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ...!seismo!sun!texsun!pollux!killer!aquinas!sean Simultask on the Plus is quite an interesting setup. You can invoke DOS to run as a background process under Unix, and switch back and forth be- tween the two operating systems with the Msg Wndw key. When you're in the DOS window, the Plus behaves exactly like an MS-DOS machine; you can set up and use config.sys, autoexec.bat, memory-resident programs, even install RAM disks. The only real problem is that it's a memory hog. 1 mb is barely enough RAM to accomodate both Unix and DOS at the same time. If you plan to use any DOS applications that require more than 256k, you'll probably want to add memory (another 512k or 1mb) for best results. This leads to my A-Number-1 gripe about the Plus.... Adding RAM is very expensive. The 16-bit expansion bus requires that you use AT&T-proprietary 16-bit cards. AT-style 16-bit cards are *NOT* compatible. The last time I checked, AT&T wanted $695 for the card with 512k RAM. I haven't really checked around that much, so I don't know for sure if it can be had anywhere else any cheaper. Another problem is hard disk space. Unix reserves part of the 20 meg for bad track handling, which leaves you with about 18 mb useable disk space... then the operating system files take another 7 mb or so; almost half the disk space is gone before you install any applications of your own! Replacing the 20 meg with a bigger disk ain't easy, either. Unix needs to find the Hard Disk Parameters in the motherboard BIOS, and the motherboard BIOS only supports 5 hard-disk types larger than 20 mb (to be specific: CDC Wren [30 mb], Tandon and Seagate ST4051 [40 mb], Micropolis 1325 [67 mb], and Miniscribe 6086 [80 mb]). On the positive side, the HDU controller (WX2) will support two hard disks. As I said earlier, Unix with Simultask is fantastic, but adding the RAM and changing hard disks is a pain! If I had lots of money I wouldn't mind, but computers are more or less just a hobby for me, and I can't justify spending so much on it. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin D. Bond uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!ncspm!kevin Domain: kevin@ncspm.ncsu.edu internet: kevin%ncspm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu
dan@prairie.UUCP (06/04/87)
Very odd, all this talk about Microport and the 6300+. I'll try to make some sense of this, as best I can: My understanding is that Microport Unix and 6300+ Unix are both descended from a single port of System V, called SV/286, which was done by Interactive (I think). In particular, limitations in the compiler descend from that port. SV/286 was written for the Intel 310. Microport took it to the PC/AT and compatibles, while AT&T independently ported it to the 6300+. The DOS/Merge software was written by Locus for the 6300+, and is sold by AT&T for that machine. DOS/Merge was then rewritten by Locus for Microport Unix. Apparently, the AT lacks some hardware support for the Merge software which the 6300+ possesses. AT&T and Microport Unix are object code compatible. AT&T has updated and replaced several utilities, e.g. HoneyDanBer UUCP, and may have tidied up other programs a bit more. Microport has had their hands full trying to support the AT compatibles, and has concentrated more on the drivers. I want to stress that these two Unices are siblings. The Unix that runs on the 6300+ is NOT Microport Unix. -- Dan Frank (w9nk) ARPA: dan@db.wisc.edu ATT: (608) 255-0002 (home) UUCP: ... uwvax!prairie!dan (608) 262-4196 (office) SNAILMAIL: 1802 Keyes Ave. Madison, WI 53711-2006
rkh@mtune.ATT.COM (Robert Halloran) (06/05/87)
In article <463@prairie.UUCP> dan@prairie.UUCP (Daniel M. Frank) writes: > My understanding is that Microport Unix and 6300+ Unix are both >descended from a single port of System V, called SV/286, which was >done by Interactive (I think). In particular, limitations in the >compiler descend from that port. SV/286 was written for the Intel >310. Microport took it to the PC/AT and compatibles, while AT&T >independently ported it to the 6300+. The port was done under subcontract from Intel to Digital Research. The people involved later left DRI and formed Microport, which is why they claim such familiarity with the SysV/286 base port. Bob Halloran, Consultant, ATT ISL ========================================================================= UUCP: rutgers!mtune!rkh DDD: (201)251-7514 eve ET Internet: rkh@mtune.ATT.COM USPS: 19 Culver Ct, Old Bridge NJ 08857 Disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Quote: "No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai