ken@maxepr.UUCP (Ken Brassler) (06/29/87)
doug@marque.UUCP (harris, douglas) writes >...and who bought them wanting Unix on the desktop, is that they in >fact did not put UNIX on the desktop, they put a bastardized Unix >underneath and a fouled up "user agent" on top, and did not allow >those who knew what to do with Unix to get underneath it to make >it go. >Nothing would have >improved the chances of that machine more, in my opinion, than to >have totally "cleaned it out", putting real SysV or BSD, with some >low level communications hooks, and high-level OPTIONAL interfaces >to windows and user agents. I can't argue with your credentials, but I wonder about the impression your giving to the many people who are considering buying this box. I've been hacking computers for 11 years, the last 2 with a 3B1, and I have no idea what you mean by "low level communication hooks" and "high-level OPTIONAL interfaces..." I realize this is simply a matter of computer jargon. I am probably aware of the conditions you are referring to, but your phraseology does not lead me to that point. The impression I could get, is that windows are not optional, and the 7300 can't communicate. In my humble opinion, the interface to windows and user agent IS optional. All you have to do is edit your .profile and remove the line that says 'exec /usr/bin/ua', and you will remain in the shell specified in /etc/passwd. This can be /bin/sh or /bin/ksh (and even /bin/csh is floating around). Several people have set up .profile to look at $TERM to decide whether to exec UA for a given login. Remote non-graphics terminals and dialups get /bin/sh as an interface. Personally, I never use the UA, (except for a few games, like chess) and as far as I'm concerned, I'm looking at a vanilla SysV box. This, to me, is very flexible, but it may not meet your definition of "high-level". However, if you're using /bin/sh, and you want to switch to the user agent, you can; exec /usr/bin/ua and it's just as though you logged into the UA, and a ^D will log you out. You can also just enter; /usr/bin/ua and now when you log out, you're dropped back into /bin/sh, however, the UA windows are not torn down, and you're left in an unworkable situation, requiring another ^D to start over. This could be the high level problem you are refering to. However, you do NOT have to run the UA in order for a program to use windows. The UA only gives you a MENU system in windows. Any program written to use windows and the mouse can be invoked from /bin/sh. Try using shift F2 from /bin/sh, to start the Call program. The window pops up and the mouse works as expected. For communications I run HoneyDanBer uucp, smail (with a full pathalias database), ELM, and news2.11. I have an external 1200/2400 baud modem as well as the internal 300/1200 with 2 data phone lines. Each modem is capable of both dialin/dialout. Also available are sz, rz, kermit, etc.... No doubt this is not the communications you were speaking of. I have no experience with LANs, but I understand an ethernet board is available. The 3B1 compiles everything that comes down comp.sources.unix, for SysV, without modification. The compiler handles long names, so you have a leg up in porting BSD stuff. So again, in my humble opinion, I do have REAL Unix on my desk. I don't know what more I could do if I had the REAL REAL Unix that you refer to. (but I think I'm going to find out :-) ) But to be fair, please limit your comparisons to systems I can purchase for $2200 or less. In following this discussion, I've noticed that the negative reviews come from the academic world. Although this is probably due to the fact that the 7300 is the low end box of all the computers at their disposal, it could also be that the machines AT&T donated were all 1/2 or 1 MB RAM, with a 20 MB disk, intended to be used as workstations on a network, not stand alone computers. Since I started with 1/2 MB RAM and a 20 MB disk, then worked up to 2 MB RAM and a 67 MB, 28 ms disk, I can tell you that there is a BIG difference in speed. The time to compile a given program is now 1/4 the time of my original configuration, with increased RAM having more effect than disk speed. Also, the HD has 4 MB reserved for swap space, and Unix plus utilities require about 9 MB. After all your log files fill up, you'll have about 6 MB remaining on a 20 MB disk. Hardly enough for any serious computing. Bottom line - get the 2 x 67 3B1, plus the Unix utilities package, and you will have SysV Unix on your desk, not hampered by large model/small model segmentation problems. Or, you can hide SysV Unix under the user agent menu system. Your choice - works either way. -- Ken Brassler {ihnp4|qantel|pyramid|lll-crg}!ptsfa!maxepr!ken ....ethos!gladys!ptsfa!maxepr!ken
allyn@sdcsvax.UUCP (06/29/87)
In article <482@maxepr.UUCP>, ken@maxepr.UUCP (Ken Brassler) writes: > In my humble opinion, the interface to windows and user agent IS > optional. All you have to do is edit your .profile and remove the > line that says 'exec /usr/bin/ua', and you will remain in the shell > specified in /etc/passwd. This can be /bin/sh or /bin/ksh (and even > /bin/csh is floating around). > > Several people have set up .profile to look at $TERM to decide whether > to exec UA for a given login. Remote non-graphics terminals and > dialups get /bin/sh as an interface. system v login has the nifty feature that extra words on the login line (after your login name) are put into the environment. extra words having the form name=value are put in the environment unchanged, and words without a = are put into the environment with names like L0, L1 etc. these can be used in the .profile to indicate specific actions when logging in: if [ "$L0" = "ua" ]; then exec /usr/bin/ua fi so if i log in normally with: login: myname then i get put into my normal shell. if i log in with: login: myname ua then i get the user agent. incidentally, i can't stand the user agent. -- From the virtual mind of Allyn Fratkin allyn@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu or EMU Project {ucbvax, decvax, ihnp4} U.C. San Diego !sdcsvax!allyn