gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (07/10/87)
ebh@cord.UUCP (Ed Horch) wrote: > One... consists of completely > non-proprietary software, a lot of it being nicely packaged public > domain stuff like Larn. I un-uuencoded the STORE! catalog, found an ASCII cpio archive, and took it apart. From the descriptions enclosed, it looks like this "nicely packaged public domain stuff" that you can get in source from your friendly neighborhood Usenet site or archive, only comes in binary from these turkeys. A few things have sources, but source is the exception, not the rule. The last thing we need is for AT&T to be pushing the "public domain binary" disease that has crippled MSDOS hackers for so long. -- {dasys1,ncoast,well,sun,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@postgres.berkeley.edu Alt.all: the alternative radio of the Usenet.
lm@cottage.WISC.EDU (Larry McVoy) (07/11/87)
In article <2388@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >The last thing we need is for AT&T to be pushing the "public domain >binary" disease that has crippled MSDOS hackers for so long. Well said, well said. I was looking through that stuff and noticed exactly the same thing. I also noticed very little that was specific to the AT&T PC 7300, but was there almost never included source. I'd really like to see the source to the loadable drivers... Anyone got one to work? Larry McVoy lm@cottage.wisc.edu or uwvax!mcvoy
dpw@unisec.UUCP (07/11/87)
In article <2388@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >ebh@cord.UUCP (Ed Horch) wrote: >> One... consists of completely >I un-uuencoded the STORE! catalog, found an ASCII cpio archive, and >took it apart. From the descriptions enclosed, it looks like this >"nicely packaged public domain stuff" that you can get in source from >your friendly neighborhood Usenet site or archive, only comes in binary >from these turkeys. A few things have sources, but source is the >exception, not the rule. Yes, it is true that most of the PD stuff from the store is in binary form. The is because many don't have a C compiler and those that do gets the same source from usenet, bbs or etc. I argree that some source would be very helpful (ex: CTRCAP3.5). -- Darryl Wagoner UniSecure Systems, Inc.; dpw@unisec.usi.com Newport, RI; (401)-849-0857 UUCP: {gatech|mirror|cbosgd|uiucdcs|ihnp4}!rayssd!unisec!dpw
andys@genesis.UUCP (a.b.sherman) (07/19/87)
In article <2388@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: > >I un-uuencoded the STORE! catalog, found an ASCII cpio archive, and >took it apart. From the descriptions enclosed, it looks like this >"nicely packaged public domain stuff" that you can get in source from >your friendly neighborhood Usenet site or archive, only comes in binary >from these turkeys. A few things have sources, but source is the >exception, not the rule. This is absolutely unbelievable. The STORE! is a FREE, that's right, FREE service, that is a spare time project of some of the UNIX-PC support people at AT&T Informations Systems Laboratories. They have very few sources because the software is intended to be turnkey software installed under the user agent in an environment where not everybody owns the development set. If you don't like the service, the answer is really simple: Don't use it. But don't refer to the providers of the service as turkeys. They have gone to a lot of trouble to get their management to free up some of their time for this project. With this kind of thanks, clearly the company is not getting its money back in good will. How much free source do you get from IBM? Why do you only assume it's your due right from us? I know that DEC has DECUS, but we also carry a large share of the burden for moving usenet traffic, and post a lot of stuff to comp.sources. Why should we bother? P.S. I have NO CONNECTION with the folks who run the STORE!, except as a customer. I have no complaints with the way they run it. -- andy sherman / at&t bell laboratories (medical diagnostic systems) room 2h-097 / 480 red hill road / middletown, nj 07748 (201) 615-5708 / andys@shlepper.ATT.COM ...The views and opinions are my own. Who else would want them?
hart@cp1.BELL-ATL.COM (Rod Hart) (07/21/87)
Some of us appreciate the store, so don't let the sour grapes turn you off. It would be nice if other hardware vendors provided similar services. I think other satisfied users of the store have a moral obligation to speak up. Who knows, maybe some of the "in-house" stuff will find its' way into distribution via "The Store". If it works, source isn't needed unless you wish to use the program on another vendors' hardware. -- Signed by: Rod Hart (WA3MEZ) Minicomputer Technical Support District Chesapeake & Potomac Tel. Co. - A Bell Atlantic Company bellcore!cp1!hart - aplcen!cp1!hart - mimsy!cp1!hart - gamma!cp1!hart
dklann@gmwi1.UUCP (David Klann) (07/22/87)
in article <1658@cp1.BELL-ATL.COM>, hart@cp1.BELL-ATL.COM (Rod Hart) says: > Some of us appreciate the store, so don't let the sour grapes turn > you off. It would be nice if other hardware vendors provided similar > ... I too appreciate THE STORE! It seems to me that this machine was always intended for the "non-computer" person. THE STORE! is a way to distribute some of the public domain software in a manner that anyone can enjoy it. It's been said before, and I don't mind repeating it: if you want the source, watch the Net, or go get it from the archives. My hat is off to all the people running THE STOREerserse 100'
wcs@ho95e.ATT.COM (Bill.Stewart) (07/22/87)
John Gilmore gnu@hoptoad.uucp complained that the STORE mostly distributed binary rather than sources. Andy Sherman andys@genesis.UUCP replied that first of all it's free and besides it's a spare-time project of the implementors. >They have very few sources because the software is intended to be >turnkey software installed under the user agent in an environment >where not everybody owns the development set. I've got several comments to add, as yet another user. The STORE has had a major impact on the usability of my 7300. It's also used up most of the 20 MB hard disk, just with binaries, and most of the 7300s out there have 20MB disks. You can call us turkeys for selling it with the small, terrible hard disk and no way to add multiple disks, but given those limitations it's tough to put source distributions out. Much of the source *is* available though the AT&T Toolchest, which provides a site license for source. Some non-7300-specific examples are ksh and Montgomery's emacs. -- # Thanks; # Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs 2G218, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs
brad@bradley.UUCP (07/25/87)
What's the stores phone #?
Bradley Smith UUCP: {cepu,ihnp4,noao,uiucdcs}!bradley!brad
Text Processing ARPA: cepu!bradley!brad@CS.UCLA
Bradley University PH: (309) 677-2337
Peoria, IL 61625