jr@amanue.UUCP (Jim Rosenberg) (08/20/87)
I have a new 3B1 and have a whole ton of miscellaneous questions, not all of
which I'll probably remember. One got answered in the last few days without
my asking it. (About those flashing lights ...) Does anybody know what the
sys entry reported by ps in the TTY column means? My .profile prints the
tty and current directory on the bottom-most extra line of the screen. Since
I only have one true login at a time, I'm pulling it out of a ps listing --
I guess I could use the tty command instead. Hmm, I just did that, and it
reported /dev/w6 for a non-su shell, but /dev/syscon for a su shell where
ps is reporting sys as my TTY. My current login sequence is as follows:
I log into a shell, maybe do some shell commands, exec ua, then bring up
"full-screen UNIX" in several windows. In the first of these I exec su -
and in the rest exec su - jr. (I'm used to having all those virtual terminals
under VENIX; the one second delay in <shift-Suspend> and <shift-Resume> [those
are 3.51-isms, I think] and its tendency to eat the type-ahead buffer are
mild pains, but tolerable.) The first shell I bring up this way seems to
be sys.
Is there a way to run a real getty in a window? I saw some traffic months ago,
before I knew that the Sale of the Century would happen (I knew there was
*some* mysterious reason I kept reading unix-pc.general!) concerning a +IN
file similar to CAPCTRL that let you toggle full-screen windows; can somebody
fill me in on that? Is there a way to bring up multiple full-screen shells
without going through ua?
It says in various places not to edit /etc/inittab, that all kinds of daemonic
thingies edit it on the fly. Bother. Are there certain things known to be
safe? E.g., suppose I wanna do various things in run state 3. Can I edit
those into inittab with vi and will ua leave them alone? It's hard to believe
the author(s) of ua and smgr or whatever would help themselves to inittab and
not leave *any* of it for the user. All those run states are supposedly there
for a reason. On my VENIX machine I use run state 3 for a power-failure-detect
shutdown sequence, for instance.
I see ps -fe is not showing me any command line arguments. This is nice for
security, but not nice at all to find out what arguments ua is supplying to
various shell scripts. Grump!
Well now **THIS** is interesting: /etc/lddrv/unix.sym is an ASCII version of
the kernel namelist. The kernel is completely unstripped, it appears.
Browsing through this what does one find: sock_read, sock_write, sock_ioctl,
sock_sema, sock_close. SOCKETS! Well glory be, maybe she has some real
Berkeley blood in her after all. Does anybody know anything about Convergent's
sockets? Do you have to write a driver to access these routines? Could they
be "brought out" to the user level by a driver? Are they anything like real
Berkeley sockets? Is the window interface implemented on top of them? There's
*SO MUCH* Berkeley code that uses sockets, the thought that some of that might
be ported to the 3B1 is tantalizing. Bob Hoffman at pitt tells me that the
Convergent Mini-frame supports TCP-IP, and thinks these might be real sockets.
Anyone know anything about TCP-IP for the 3B1? I've heard of sockets being
kludged into System V ports, and have always wanted to play with sockets but
have never had the chance.
Does anybody know if there's a port of X-Windows for the 3B1?
--
Jim Rosenberg
CIS: 71515,124 decvax!idis! \
WELL: jer allegra! ---- pitt!amanue!jr
BIX: jrosenberg seismo!cmcl2!cadre! /richard@islenet.UUCP (Richard Foulk) (08/20/87)
In article <233@amanue.UUCP> jr@amanue.UUCP (Jim Rosenberg) writes: > I have a new 3B1 and have a whole ton of miscellaneous questions, not all of > which I'll probably remember. [...] > Is there a way to run a real getty in a window? I saw some traffic months ago Getty already runs in, or attached to, a window. > before I knew that the Sale of the Century would happen (I knew there was > *some* mysterious reason I kept reading unix-pc.general!) concerning a +IN > file similar to CAPCTRL that let you toggle full-screen windows; can somebody > fill me in on that? That was the old CAPCTRL for version 3.0 of the opsys. The newer CAPCTRL is missing this feature. Though, it is possible to do some nice things by junking the phone manager and plugging in your own daemon to listen to the shifted function keys (check windows(7)). > [...] Is there a way to bring up multiple full-screen shells > without going through ua? Yes, there's a nice utility available from "the store" called windy that plays with the windows in nice ways for you. If you do something like: windy -b csh you'll be put into a new shell in a new window that is running in the background with regards to the previous shell. So if you hit Suspd to get the windows menu, the new shell will have an entry of its own. I've changed my passwd entry so when I login I go direct to the c-shell. The tail end of my .login file looks something like this: windy -n 'login shell' # instead of "unknown contents" windy -b csh # so I have a shell to come back to windy will also let you call up the ua and tear it down again cleanly, without logging out. > > It says in various places not to edit /etc/inittab, that all kinds of daemonic > thingies edit it on the fly. Bother. Are there certain things known to be > safe? E.g., suppose I wanna do various things in run state 3. Can I edit > those into inittab with vi and will ua leave them alone? It's hard to believe > the author(s) of ua and smgr or whatever would help themselves to inittab and > not leave *any* of it for the user. All those run states are supposedly there > for a reason. [...] It kinda looks like whoever put the phone manager or whatever together didn't know about run states. It appears that once you have your inittab set up that the only thing they change is to add and delete leading colons to enable and disable gettys on selected ports. This is apparently to get the ports to work bi-directionally. I have no idea why they didn't use run states, maybe someone else has a clue. > > I see ps -fe is not showing me any command line arguments. This is nice for > security, but not nice at all to find out what arguments ua is supplying to > various shell scripts. Grump! This is System V, not BSD, that's the way it works. The -e flag means print info on all processes, not print the environment as it does with BSD. > > Well now **THIS** is interesting: /etc/lddrv/unix.sym is an ASCII version of > the kernel namelist. The kernel is completely unstripped, it appears. > Browsing through this what does one find: sock_read, sock_write, sock_ioctl, > sock_sema, sock_close. SOCKETS! Well glory be, maybe she has some real You can buy an ethernet board for the 3B1 for about $700, and the drivers to make it go are about $300. I talked to one of the more knowledgeable folks at one of the software support numbers a few weeks ago and was told that the software includes "all of the Berkeley 'r' commands", and supposedly a complete sockets implementation. I didn't think to ask him which BSD version they were from, or if the software would fly without the board. > > Does anybody know if there's a port of X-Windows for the 3B1? > -- I doubt it, but it would be nice. -- Richard Foulk ...{dual,vortex,ihnp4}!islenet!richard Honolulu, Hawaii
kathy@bakerst.UUCP (Kathy Vincent) (08/20/87)
In article <233@amanue.UUCP> jr@amanue.UUCP (Jim Rosenberg) writes: > >I see ps -fe is not showing me any command line arguments. This is nice for >security, but not nice at all to find out what arguments ua is supplying to >various shell scripts. Grump! I agree with this. I understand the security aspect, but seems to me that at least *root* ought to be able to see command line arguments - and not just to find out what args ua is supplying to shell scripts. I'm used to seeing them all the time working on DECs, VAXen, 3B20s, and my 3B2 at work, and I miss being able to see them at home. Kathy Vincent ------> Home: {ihnp4|mtune|codas|ptsfa}!bakerst!kathy ------> AT&T: {ihnp4|mtune|burl}!wrcola!kathy
jhc@mtune.ATT.COM (Jonathan Clark) (08/22/87)
>> file similar to CAPCTRL that let you toggle full-screen windows; > >That was the old CAPCTRL for version 3.0 of the opsys. The newer CAPCTRL >is missing this feature. This feature is now in the KEYSWITCH package, it got implemented differently on 3.5. re: sockets These aren't from any BSD version, but they're the same only different. As far as I know they only work with the Ether cards (hmmm, maybe they *are* from BSD after all...). -- Jonathan Clark [NAC,attmail]!mtune!jhc An Englishman never enjoys himself except for some noble purpose.
lenny@icus.UUCP (Lenny Tropiano) (08/22/87)
In article <3439@islenet.UUCP>, richard@islenet.UUCP (Richard Foulk) writes: |In article <233@amanue.UUCP> jr@amanue.UUCP (Jim Rosenberg) writes: |> I have a new 3B1 and have a whole ton of miscellaneous questions, not all of |> which I'll probably remember. [...] | |> |> I see ps -fe is not showing me any command line arguments. This is nice for |> security, but not nice at all to find out what arguments ua is supplying to |> various shell scripts. Grump! | | This is System V, not BSD, that's the way it works. The -e flag means | print info on all processes, not print the environment as it does with | BSD. | I have System V 3.0 running on our 3B2/310 and it prints all the command arguments (I miss it on my UNIX PC). In fact, the UNIX PC is the only system that I notice that doesn't print all the command line args. Oh well, maybe some guru who can understand how to interface with /usr/lib/include/sys/user.h and the other pcb.h might be able to write an enhanced ps?! |> |> Does anybody know if there's a port of X-Windows for the 3B1? |> -- | | I doubt it, but it would be nice. | As far as I know this exists with the Utilities stuff for 3.51, I'm might just wait for 4.0 since this is pretty fast for a new release since 3.5. It gets kind of expensive to upgrade. -Lenny -- Lenny Tropiano | UUCP: {mtune,uunet!swlabs}!godfre!quincy!\ ICUS Computer Group | ...{ihnp4,chinet}! \icus!lenny PO Box 1 | ...cmcl2!phri!gor!helm!quincy! / Islip Terrace, NY 11752|...{seismo,rutgers,cmcl2}!harvard!talcott!/ -- Lenny Tropiano | UUCP: {mtune,uunet!swlabs}!godfre!quincy!\ ICUS Computer Group | ...{ihnp4,chinet}! \icus!lenny PO Box 1 | ...cmcl2!phri!gor!helm!quincy! / Islip Terrace, NY 11752|...{seismo,rutgers,cmcl2}!harvard!talcott!/
brant@manta.UUCP (Brant Cheikes) (08/23/87)
In article <14@icus.UUCP> lenny@icus.UUCP (Lenny Tropiano) writes: >|> >|> Does anybody know if there's a port of X-Windows for the 3B1? >|> -- >As far as I know this exists with the Utilities stuff for 3.51, I'm might >just wait for 4.0 since this is pretty fast for a new release since 3.5. >It gets kind of expensive to upgrade. You are confusing X-windows with "XT Layers", which comes with the 3.51 development kit. They are not the same. X-windows is available from the MIT Athena Project; it's an impressive new window system for bitmapped graphics workstations. It runs on a number of machines and is written in C, but I think the relatively small size of the 3B1 display (compared to the size of displays on workstations that X was designed for) would not make use of X-windows useful, if it could be ported at all. By the way, aren't you just assuming (optimistically) that there will ever be a release 4.0 of the Unix PC F/S and utilities? Brant -- Brant Cheikes ARPA: brant@linc.cis.upenn.edu UUCP: {seismo|allegra|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!cgh!manta!brant Department of Computer and Information Science / University of Pennsylvania
richard@islenet.UUCP (Richard Foulk) (08/25/87)
> |> > |> Does anybody know if there's a port of X-Windows for the 3B1? > |> -- > | > | I doubt it, but it would be nice. > | > > As far as I know this exists with the Utilities stuff for 3.51, I'm might > just wait for 4.0 since this is pretty fast for a new release since 3.5. > It gets kind of expensive to upgrade. > I haven't seen the 3.51 utilities, but I'd say finding X among them seems pretty doubtful. X is a pretty big package that apparently takes quite a bit of work to port to a new BSD system, and ports to System V are few and very far between. And since the Unix-pc is being discontinued I think waiting for version 4.0 of the utilities is a bit optimistic. I'm anxiously waiting to be proven wrong on both counts. But not holding my breath. -- Richard Foulk ...{dual,vortex,ihnp4}!islenet!richard Honolulu, Hawaii
richard@islenet.UUCP (Richard Foulk) (08/25/87)
In article <1154@mtune.ATT.COM> jhc@mtune.UUCP (Jonathan Clark) writes: > >> file similar to CAPCTRL that let you toggle full-screen windows; > > > >That was the old CAPCTRL for version 3.0 of the opsys. The newer CAPCTRL > >is missing this feature. > > This feature is now in the KEYSWITCH package, it got implemented > differently on 3.5. > The KEYSWITCH package doesn't seem to be part of the current catalog from "The Store". Could someone explain how to get a copy? Or perhaps post it if it's not too large? thanks -- Richard Foulk ...{dual,vortex,ihnp4}!islenet!richard Honoluluonesinker
alex@umbc3.UUCP (08/27/87)
>The KEYSWITCH package doesn't seem to be part of the current >catalog from "The Store". Call me a moron, but whats "The Store"? AT&T? AAAA RRRR FFFFF Do what you want to do : You will anyway. AA AA RR RR FF AAAAAA RRRR FFFF If found wandering aimlessly, AA AA RR RR FF feed and return to: AA AA RR RR FF alex@umbc3.umd.edu
jhc@mtune.ATT.COM (Jonathan Clark) (09/01/87)
In article <3450@islenet.UUCP> richard@islenet.UUCP (Richard Foulk) writes: :In article <1154@mtune.ATT.COM> jhc@mtune.UUCP (Jonathan Clark) writes: :> This feature is now in the KEYSWITCH package, it got implemented :> differently on 3.5. :The KEYSWITCH package doesn't seem to be part of the current :catalog from "The Store". So much for *my* memory. It's called WMGR. Sorry! -- Jonathan Clark [NAC,attmail]!mtune!jhc An Englishman never enjoys himself except for some noble purpose.
brad@bradley.UUCP (09/01/87)
THE STORE IS A PLACE TO GET FREE SOFTWARE....
PH: 1-201-957-4646
MACHINE: shop
LOGIN: shop
uucp the file CATALOG+IN from either /usr/spool/uucppublic/STOREROOM
or /usr/spool/uucppublic/STORE or /usr/spool/uucppublic (I think
it is one of thoses, can any one help?) This is an installable file
and allows you to make a floppy disk containing it. I could post
a compress & uuencoded file if enough people want it.
Bradley Smith UUCP: {cepu,ihnp4,noao,uiucdcs}!bradley!brad
Text Processing ARPA: cepu!bradley!brad@CS.UCLA
Bradley University PH: (309) 677-2337
Peoria, IL 61625