samperi@unirot.UUCP (10/03/87)
I just finished implementing a UNIX-compatible cpio for DOS on a PC, and
I hoped to use it to transfer files via floppy disks between my AT
(running System V UNIX) and AT&T 3B2's (also running System V UNIX). But
I've since learned that the 3B2's do not format floppies in the same way
that the PC does. Does anyone know how floppies are formatted on the 3B2?
Is there software available that will enable a PC to format a floppy so
that a 3B2 can use it, or vis versa?
Dominick Samperi
UUCP: ...!ihnp4!cmcl2!manhat!samperi
...!rutgers!unirot!samperibhj@bhjat.UUCP (burt janz) (10/04/87)
In article <472@unirot.UUCP>, samperi@unirot.UUCP (Dominick Samperi) writes: > I just finished implementing a UNIX-compatible cpio for DOS on a PC, and > I hoped to use it to transfer files via floppy disks between my AT > (running System V UNIX) and AT&T 3B2's (also running System V UNIX). But > I've since learned that the 3B2's do not format floppies in the same way > that the PC does. Does anyone know how floppies are formatted on the 3B2? Recently, I tried to read some 3b2 floppies on Microport SV/AT V2.2.2L on my AT clone. I was able to read the first track... cpio -icvt6 meaning that they use the old "version 6" type of CPIO format. However, with both the 360k floppy and the 1.2mb floppy I got read errors when the floppy stepped to the next track. I get the feeling that it is more than a floppy format problem. I think that they must be using a non-standard 360k floppy drive. Admittedly, I did NOT investigate further, since I felt that swapping drives and spending over 3 hours just trying to read 3 floppies was not worth the effort to get the data on the floppies. Hope this helps. Burt Janz
jdu@ihopa.ATT.COM (John Unruh) (10/05/87)
The 3B2 does not use a 360K drive. It uses a higher density drive
(you have to use 1.2 Mb floppies to make it work reliably). I think
it holds about 760K on a disk.
John Unruhwnp@killer.UUCP (Wolf Paul) (10/05/87)
In article <472@unirot.UUCP>, samperi@unirot.UUCP (Dominick Samperi) writes: > I just finished implementing a UNIX-compatible cpio for DOS on a PC, and > I hoped to use it to transfer files via floppy disks between my AT > (running System V UNIX) and AT&T 3B2's (also running System V UNIX). But > I've since learned that the 3B2's do not format floppies in the same way > that the PC does. Does anyone know how floppies are formatted on the 3B2? > Is there software available that will enable a PC to format a floppy so > that a 3B2 can use it, or vis versa? Two pieces of information on this: 1. Rich Salz recently posted Emmet Gray's MTOOLS package to comp.sources.unix. This package will allow any UNIX system to read MS-DOS diskettes, provided that the UNIX system has a floppy drive physically capable of reading the MS-DOS formats (i.e. 40 Tracks @ 9 sectors for 360K disks). This would allow you to copy a DOS file to the 3B2 or vice versa, and then unpack it with the appropriate archiver. 2. The MKS Toolkit contains a dd(1) command, which permits reading and writing floppy disks without reference to the file system on the disk, i.e. it just reads/writes sectors in the proper sequence. With this command, I can write an archive to a floppy from DOS like this: find ... | cpio ... | dd of=a: and read the archive on the UNIX system with cpio -icdm < /dev/rdsk/fd048 # if a 360K disk or cpio -icdm < /dev/rdsk/fd096 # if a 1.2M disk Again, this requires that the UNIX system have disk drives (and drivers) capable of reading the raw MS-DOS format(s). The formats are 40 Tracks @ 9 sectors for 360K, and 80 tracks @ 15 sectors for 1.2MB. On Microport System V/AT, the RAW disk device entries are in /dev/rdsk/fd*, and have names indicative of the drive characteristics as follows: fd{dr}{dens}[{sides}{secs}] where dr = Drive #, either 0 for A: or 1 for B: dens = Density in tracks/inch, 48 for double density, 96 for quad/high density. Note that these numbers translate 40 and 80 tracks respectively PER DISK, since a 5.25 floppy does not use a full inch if tracks. sides = ds for doublesided, ss for singlesided. All current DOS formats (360K, 720K, 1.2M) are doublesided. secs = Sectors per track, 9 for 360K and 720K disks, 15 for 1.2M disks. I do not know how these naming conventions compare to those on a 3B2, but I am sure that your documentation will specify the raw track/sector format of the various floppies your system can read. Wolf Paul ihnp4!killer! [ mcomp! ] wnp
rjd@tiger.UUCP (10/05/87)
> The 3B2 does not use a 360K drive. It uses a higher density drive > (you have to use 1.2 Mb floppies to make it work reliably). I think > it holds about 760K on a disk. > John Unruh Or, more precisely, 728,064 bytes per floppy. Randy
randy@chinet.UUCP (Randy Suess) (10/05/87)
In article <582@ihopa.ATT.COM> jdu@ihopa.ATT.COM (John Unruh) writes: >The 3B2 does not use a 360K drive. It uses a higher density drive >(you have to use 1.2 Mb floppies to make it work reliably). I think >it holds about 760K on a disk. Microport can read/write 3b2 floppies and vice/versa. You need to create a new entry in /dev/dsk and /dev/rdsk It is something like minor 86 or 87. I gave up on Microport months ago, so cannot give the exact number, but one of those are correct. Microport tech support should also have the info. Cpio -oc files are then easily transferable. -- that's the biz, sweetheart..... Randy Suess ..!ihnp4!chinet!randy
dave@westmark.UUCP (Dave Levenson) (10/06/87)
In article <151@bhjat.UUCP>, bhj@bhjat.UUCP (burt janz) writes: > In article <472@unirot.UUCP>, samperi@unirot.UUCP (Dominick Samperi) writes: ... > > I've since learned that the 3B2's do not format floppies in the same way > > that the PC does. Does anyone know how floppies are formatted on the 3B2? ... > Recently, I tried to read some 3b2 floppies on Microport SV/AT V2.2.2L on > my AT clone. I was able to read the first track... ... > with both the 360k floppy and the 1.2mb floppy I got read errors when the > floppy stepped to the next track. ... I think the 3b2 machines use quad-density (720 kbyte) floppies. This probably means that the track spacing is different, which explains why it's hard to step beyond track 0. If this is the case, then there is also a different media (not dsdd, and also not hd) required. Anyone at AT&T care to comment? -- Dave Levenson Westmark, Inc. A node for news. Warren, NJ USA {rutgers | clyde | mtune | ihnp4}!westmark!dave
crs@cpsc6b.cpsc6a.att.com (C. R. Seaman) (10/06/87)
In article <1737@killer.UUCP>, wnp@killer.UUCP (Wolf Paul) writes: < In article <472@unirot.UUCP>, samperi@unirot.UUCP (Dominick Samperi) writes: < > I just finished implementing a UNIX-compatible cpio for DOS on a PC, and < > I hoped to use it to transfer files via floppy disks between my AT < > and AT&T 3B2's [ ... ] < > I've since learned that the 3B2's do not format floppies in the same way < > that the PC does. < < Two pieces of information on this: < < 1. Rich Salz recently posted Emmet Gray's MTOOLS package to comp.sources.unix. < This package will allow any UNIX system to read MS-DOS diskettes, provided < that the UNIX system has a floppy drive physically capable of reading the < MS-DOS formats (i.e. 40 Tracks @ 9 sectors for 360K disks). This would allow < you to copy a DOS file to the 3B2 or vice versa, and then unpack it with the < appropriate archiver. The *other* requirement for this system of tools is that the machine already has a driver for the floppy drive that can read and write MS-DOS formatted disks. I know of no such driver for the 3B2. (That doesn't mean there *isn't* one, just that I've never seen it ;-)). < 2. The MKS Toolkit contains a dd(1) command, which permits reading and < writing floppy disks without reference to the file system on the disk, < i.e. it just reads/writes sectors in the proper sequence. With this command, < I can write an archive to a floppy from DOS like this: < < find ... | cpio ... | dd of=a: < < [ ... ] It would be much easier to use MKS Toolkit's version (or the UNIX compatible version you have written) of cpio, create an archive file, use one of the many file transfer protocols to transfer the file, then use cpio on the 3B2 to extract the archive. Cpio archives don't need to be written to a raw device. They can just as easily be written to files, which may (or may not) be more 'portable'. < Wolf Paul < ihnp4!killer! [ mcomp! ] wnp -- Chris Seaman | o\ /o crs@cpsc6a.att.com <or> | || See "Attack of the Killer Smiley"! ..!ihnp4!cpsc6a!crs | \vvvvvv/ Coming Soon to a newsgroup near you! | \____to
tr@wind.bellcore.com (tom reingold) (10/08/87)
In article <418@cpsc6b.cpsc6a.att.com> crs@cpsc6b.cpsc6a.att.com (C. R. Seaman) writes:
$ [...]
$ It would be much easier to use MKS Toolkit's version (or the UNIX compatible
$ version you have written) of cpio, create an archive file, use one of the
$ many file transfer protocols to transfer the file, then use cpio on
$ the 3B2 to extract the archive. Cpio archives don't need to be written
$ to a raw device. They can just as easily be written to files, which
$ may (or may not) be more 'portable'.
$ [...]
$ Chris Seaman
Yes, that's easier. But it misses the point. Using a serial port, as
I think you are suggesting when you say "transfer the file", is slow.
A floppy disk drive goes MANY times faster than 9600 bps or 19200 bps.
When there are many files or large files or both, a serial port is
very impractical.
Another problem is that the cpio file could be bigger than the space
you have on a disk.
We really need something here. I think we will soon have it, because
the need is so real. Mostly, we need a floppy drive that connects
easily to Unix machines and we need a device driver on which to run
the software posted by Rich Salz.
Tom Reingold INTERNET: tr@bellcore.bellcore.com
Bell Communications Research UUCP: <backbone>!bellcore!tr
435 South St room 2L350 SOUNDNET: (201) 829-5119 [work]
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