spear@ihlpf.UUCP (11/23/87)
First, was I the only person who did not know that the floppy in the 7300 is not PC-compatible. I just thought I'd mention this in case anyone else tries to replace a drive. I recently got a 7300 with a dead floppy and tried dropping a 360K PC drive in it. It would go on and the LED would light appropriately, but the machine did not recognize the floppy. I tried changing a few jumpers around on the floppy board, but no luck. Second, the query. Has anyone successfully upgraded their motherboard memory on the 7300? I've got to find a reasonable way to get my 512K on the new/old 7300 I just got upgraded. So far, apparently there are no price reductions on the memory or combo boards to coincide with the sell-out of the 7300 units. And FINALLY, did anyone else hear that the reason the 7300 supply has about dried up is that they were all bought up recently by a European firm? This was the story I got from a VAR recently. It might have some significance on whether or not other parts become available at reduced prices or perhaps get all bought up and become unavailable at any price. Steve Spearman ihnp4!ihlpf!spear
farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) (11/24/87)
In article <2848@ihlpf.ATT.COM> spear@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Spearman) writes: >First, was I the only person who did not know that the floppy >in the 7300 is not PC-compatible. You are wrong. The floppy in mine, and the one specified in the Tech Reference Manual, is a dead standard Teac floppy, no different than the one I have in my PC. You might try playing with those jumpers some more. >And FINALLY, did anyone else hear that the reason the 7300 supply >has about dried up is that they were all bought up recently by a >European firm? This was the story I got from a VAR recently. According to the AT&T guy I talked with, they are going to use the remaining 3b1's with one of their fancy telephone systems. He didn't think the European firm story was particularly likely. -- ---------------- Michael J. Farren "... if the church put in half the time on covetousness unisoft!gethen!farren that it does on lust, this would be a better world ..." gethen!farren@lll-winken.arpa Garrison Keillor, "Lake Wobegon Days"
andys@shlepper.ATT.COM (a.b.sherman) (11/24/87)
In article <2848@ihlpf.ATT.COM>, spear@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Spearman) writes: > And FINALLY, did anyone else hear that the reason the 7300 supply > has about dried up is that they were all bought up recently by a > European firm? This was the story I got from a VAR recently. > It might have some significance on whether or not other parts > become available at reduced prices or perhaps get all bought up > and become unavailable at any price. To the best of my knowledge, AT&T will have parts and service for the UNIX-PC line for the next five years or so. The company has contractural commitments to keep. -- Andy Sherman / AT&T Bell Laboratories (Medical Diagnostic Systems) 480 Red Hill Road / Middletown NJ 07748 / (201) 615-5708 UUCP: {ihnp4,allegra,akgua,cbosgd,mtune....}!shlepper!andys INTERNET: andys@shlepper.ATT.COM
wcs@ho95e.UUCP (11/24/87)
In article <384@gethen.UUCP> farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) writes:
:>And FINALLY, did anyone else hear that the reason the 7300 supply
:>has about dried up is that they were all bought up recently by a
:>European firm? This was the story I got from a VAR recently.
:According to the AT&T guy I talked with, they are going to use the
:remaining 3b1's with one of their fancy telephone systems. He
:didn't think the European firm story was particularly likely.
I went to the UNIX EXPO trade show last month in NYC. There was a vendor
there called "Computer Integration Associates" or some such (their sign said
CIA in big letters), who were selling the 7300, packaged wiht the AT&T voice
board and a bunch of softwarte CIA had written. I asked the guy about supply
issues; he said he'd bought the last 500 of them available.
Disclaimer: I don't knwo if he was right or not.
--
# Thanks;
# Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs 2G218, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcsspear@ihop3.UUCP (11/25/87)
> Xref: ihop3 unix-pc.general:1167 > In article <2848@ihlpf.ATT.COM> spear@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Spearman) writes: >>First, was I the only person who did not know that the floppy >>in the 7300 is not PC-compatible. > You are wrong. The floppy in mine, and the one specified in the Tech > Reference Manual, is a dead standard Teac floppy, no different than > the one I have in my PC. I'd be interested in feedback from anyone else who has actually put an IBM standard floppy in their PC. Not only did I try a known-good drive from my 6300 and play with all the jumpers, but I ask an AT&T serviceman who verified that the 7300 floppy was NOT PC compatible. However the Teac drive in the 7300 is Teac FD-55B-01-U which is one I recall as marketed for MSDOS clones. The jumpers could certainly have been the problem - the naming schemes of the two letter codes on the jumpers was not the same between the Teac 7300 and the 6300 floppy drive, so I was just guessing and experimenting. Maybe someone knows the changes from a standard clone floppy setting? Also, if the drive is really PC compatible, does that mean that an after market 3 1/2 inch or an AT drive could be substituted? Or would that be beyond the abilities of the controller to handle? -- Steve Spearman {ihnp4,ethos}!ihop3!spear Voice: (312) 979-4181
lenny@icus.UUCP (11/26/87)
In article <384@gethen.UUCP>, farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) writes: > In article <2848@ihlpf.ATT.COM> spear@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Spearman) writes: > >First, was I the only person who did not know that the floppy > >in the 7300 is not PC-compatible. > > You are wrong. The floppy in mine, and the one specified in the Tech > Reference Manual, is a dead standard Teac floppy, no different than > the one I have in my PC. You might try playing with those jumpers > some more. > There is a lot of talk about the floppy being a PC compatible standard Teac drive. Would there be a possibility of putting in a 1.2M/360K floppy in the Unix PC? The older 20M PC7300 used to have a 1.2M floppy. Why did AT&T make this painful reduction in floppy capacity. I assume they want us to shell out the $$$ for the Tape Backup unit which costs as much as the PC itself. :-( I wouldn't mind a tape backup, but paying $1500+ for it is slightly ridiculous! Question 1 - If I could put in a 1.2M floppy and reduce my complete backups from 150+ disks to 40+ disks how would I go about it? Does it require disk controllers to be changed? Or can this controller handle both capacities? What make drive would be suggested? Question 2 - If the above is impossible where could I get a tape backup that costs less than what AT&T sells? Alloy used to make the FT-73 which was rumored to be less? I heard they don't sell it anymore. Question 3 - Now that AT&T officially dropped the UNIX PC line (for what reasons I don't understand) When will the peripherals come down in price? I would like to someday upgrade memory and other things. Thanks in advance, Lenny -- ============================ US MAIL: Lenny Tropiano, ICUS Computer Group IIIII CCC U U SSSS PO Box 1 I C C U U S Islip Terrace, New York 11752 I C U U SSS PHONE: (516) 968-8576 [H] (516) 582-5525 [W] I C C U U S AT&T MAIL: ...attmail!icus!lenny TELEX: 154232428 IIIII CCC UUU SSSS UUCP: ============================ ...{uunet!godfre, mtune!quincy}!\ ...{ihnp4, boulder, harvard!talcott, skeeve, ptsfa}! >icus!lenny "Usenet the final frontier" ...{cmcl2!phri, hoptoad}!dasys1!/
nic@marque.mu.edu (Nic Bernstein) (11/26/87)
In article <257@ihop3.UUCP> spear@ihop3.UUCP (Steve Spearman) writes: >> Xref: ihop3 unix-pc.general:1167 >> In article <2848@ihlpf.ATT.COM> spear@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Spearman) writes: >>>First, was I the only person who did not know that the floppy >>>in the 7300 is not PC-compatible. >> You are wrong. The floppy in mine, and the one specified in the Tech >> Reference Manual, is a dead standard Teac floppy, no different than >> the one I have in my PC. > >I'd be interested in feedback from anyone else who has actually put >an IBM standard floppy in their PC. Not only did I try a known-good >drive from my 6300 and play with all the jumpers, but I ask an AT&T >serviceman who verified that the 7300 floppy was NOT PC compatible. >However the Teac drive in the 7300 is Teac FD-55B-01-U which is one I recall >as marketed for MSDOS clones. > >The jumpers could certainly have been the problem - the naming schemes >of the two letter codes on the jumpers was not the same between the >Teac 7300 and the 6300 floppy drive, so I was just guessing and experimenting. >Maybe someone knows the changes from a standard clone floppy setting? > >Also, if the drive is really PC compatible, does that mean that an >after market 3 1/2 inch or an AT drive could be substituted? Or would >that be beyond the abilities of the controller to handle? >-- >Steve Spearman {ihnp4,ethos}!ihop3!spear >Voice: (312) 979-4181 I don't see why this is impossible. I have removed the standard Teac drive from the pc7300 cabinet and blocked off the hole that it occupied. I then replaced the short cable to the drive with a long one which I ran out of the cabinet and the power supply I extended with a power "y" cable for a MSDOS machine, which is intended to power two drives when only one power connector was built in. This is long enough to reach outside the cabinet also. I had a spare (old) Shugart SA465 drive which is a 96tpi unit. I have the two drives sitting side by side next to the pc7300 with power avaliable to both and simply switch the data cable between the drives to have 360K or 720K backups and archives. I now only use the 40tpi when I need to make MS-DOS compatable disks or need the original foundation set. I also re-made the diagnostics and 1st set of 3 floppies in a 80 track version so I can re-boot and re-load software from the denser 80 track drive. The only other change needed was to make a discriptor file for "iv" to format the disk with. This setup has worked well for me for over two years now. So I fail to see why using standard MS-DOS floppies should be a problem. The following has also been observed/tried: Making the floppies with 10 sectors rather than 8, this resulted in un-reliable reads. The harware does not bring out all the mutiplex lines to the cable, so you can only have onme drive address for the floppy. Also the descriptors arn't there (/dev/fp?). The following information comes from the AT&T Service Manual, a handy little book that I paid just slightly over a buck a page ( this is if you count both sides of the dividers and both sides of blank pages, etc. ) as this wasd, at the time, the only way to find out how to connect a serial port... Fortunately AT&T wised up and has now included the port information in th eowners manuals. There are two sets of jumper rows on the drive. The one closer to the data connector: HS - No jumper - Head Select DSO - JUMPER - Drive select 0 DS1 - No jumper - Drive select 1 HM - JUMPER - Head Motor Option DS2 - No jumper - Drive select 2 DS3 - No jumper - Drive select 3 MX - No jumper - Drive select mux The jumper row furthest from the data connector ( Unfortunatly I don't know the meanings of the symbols). UR - No jumper ML - No jumper IU - JUMPER HL - No jumper SM - JUMPER U0 - No jumper U1 - No jumper RE - No jumper I hope this helps! - Nic
david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- Resident E-mail Hack) (11/26/87)
In article <257@ihop3.UUCP> spear@ihop3.UUCP (Steve Spearman) writes: >I'd be interested in feedback from anyone else who has actually put >an IBM standard floppy in their PC. Not only did I try a known-good >drive from my 6300 and play with all the jumpers, but I ask an AT&T >serviceman who verified that the 7300 floppy was NOT PC compatible. >However the Teac drive in the 7300 is Teac FD-55B-01-U which is one I recall >as marketed for MSDOS clones. Well, I haven't tried that ... however, when the AT&T repairman came out one time and saw the dual Teac's I have hanging off of my Color Computer he exclaimed something about those being the same drives they use in the Unix PC. -- <---- David Herron -- Resident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <---- or: {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET <---- "The market doesn't drop hundreds of points on a normal day..." -- <---- Fidelity Investments Corporation
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (11/29/87)
<<stuff about the $$$ of tape back-ups, etc>> 1. Anybody know if the FDU controller chip can handle the data transfer rate of a 1.2 meg drive? The cost of buying my 3b1 pretty much precluded laying out $350 for the tech ref for the moment. 2. The FDU in my 3b1 is a garden variety Teac 55B; nothing custom OEM visible there. 3. I wonder if using an IBM Pee-Cee compatible QIC format tape drive off the FDU controller is a reality. I recently bought a 40 meg tape drive for the AT compat. in my office for $349. Sure, it takes 40 min to do a back-up but I think I can live with that. The installation was rididculously simple, only requiring plugging it into the second ribbon cable connector on the AT floppy cable, attach the power supply lead and load the driver on the hard disk. The install was over in about 15 min, and I had the first back-up done in less than an hour. I wounldn't mind replacing the floppy disk in my 3b1 with a tape drive since I don't load that much stuff from floppies anyway. I can always uucp anything from a 3b1 that does have a floppy, if required. Of course it would be nifty to be able to get away with a longer ribbon cable and have the disk *and* the tape outside. Cheers, --Bill wtm@neoucom.UUCP (office) or ...![cbosgd|mandrill]!neoucom!wtm or ...![cbosgd|mandrill]!neoucom!impulse!wtm (home)
ignatz@chinet.UUCP (Dave Ihnat) (11/30/87)
In this, and a couple of other articles, mention is made that the tape backup costs $1500, as does a replacement hard disk, etc. At the same time, suggestion is offered to call the AT&T Operator to order 3.51. I'd like to suggest you contact any one of numerous VARs. They're able to knock a bit off the price of peripherals and software. For instance, VarTech (Lisle, IL, (312) 810-1777; (800) 323-6453) delivered the tape drive to me for $1164.00 + tax; the 3.51 foundation set, $195.00 (sorry, don't know list), and the Utilities set is $361.00 ($405 list) On a similar note, I got a flyer from Technology Resource Center (Los Angles, CA, (213) 937-8822; (800) 433-4904) which listed somewhat higher prices, but gives a fairly comprehensive list of available hardware and software options. As for hard disks, I would strongly recommend buying from other suppliers such as Priority 1 in California (sorry, but I don't know the 800 #; it's available from 800 directory assist) or Elek-Tek in Chicago. You can find, for instance, an 80Mb (unformatted; 67, I believe, on the 3b1 formatted) Micropolis 1325, which lists at $1494, for $1050 at Hallmark Electronics in IL ((312) 860-3800), but I've been told it's been seen for as little as $800+ at some other sources; Hallmark was just one I contacted to check that particular drive. The drive already has an iv descriptor file in /usr/lib/iv, as do numerous others. The upshot? For generic peripheral devices like disk drives, shop around the mail-order and/or local suppliers. For 3B1/7300-specific peripherals and software, you probably want to try several VARs, instead of AT&T directly, since I expect AT&T to quote list prices. DISCLAIMER: I have no affiliation with any company mentioned above; neither do I represent these as the best available prices, but simply actual price quotes representative of the type of reductions you can expect to find in the marketplace at this time. -- Dave Ihnat ihnp4!homebru!ignatz || ihnp4!chinet!ignatz (w) (312) 882-4673