stevens@hsi.UUCP (Richard Stevens) (01/10/89)
All this discussion about the AT&T 630 terminal (the derivative
of the Blit) got me wondering exactly what it was (I know what
the Blit is/was). I called AT&T and they claim the list price
is $1,225 - I was expecting something in the $2k ballpark (or more).
What software is available for it ? The AT&T literature says
it "all" comes with System V, Release 3. My SVR3.2 manuals
(for the 386) have man pages for layers(1), xt(7) and the like,
but what sort of other tools are available ?? I recall Rob
Pike's posting a few months back saying that the sam editor was
now available from the Toolchest. I've heard of a program called
proof that is a ditroff-previewer, which, if available, would convince
me to order the terminal immediately.
What I'd really like is the controlling software that can run with
4.3 BSD on a VAX. Does this exist ? If so, are there any tools
to go with it on a VAX?
Richard Stevens
Health Systems International, New Haven, CT
stevens@hsi.com
... { uunet | yale } ! hsi ! stevensekrell@hector.UUCP (Eduardo Krell) (01/10/89)
In article <242@hsi86.hsi.UUCP> stevens@hsi.UUCP (Richard Stevens) writes: >What I'd really like is the controlling software that can run with >4.3 BSD on a VAX. Does this exist ? If so, are there any tools >to go with it on a VAX? Keith Muller at U.C. San Diego did the port for 4.3 BSD and for Suns. All the tools that run on System V hosts now run on 4.3 BSD and Suns, including the SGS tools (cross-compilers, loaders, etc), ditroff and TeX previewers, sam, etc. Eduardo Krell AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ UUCP: {att,decvax,ucbvax}!ulysses!ekrell Internet: ekrell@ulysses.att.com
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn ) (01/11/89)
In article <242@hsi86.hsi.UUCP> stevens@hsi.UUCP (Richard Stevens) writes: >All this discussion about the AT&T 630 terminal (the derivative >of the Blit) got me wondering exactly what it was (I know what >the Blit is/was). I called AT&T and they claim the list price >is $1,225 - I was expecting something in the $2k ballpark (or more). The price has been continually decreasing. There are options that can raise the price. The base 640K memory is probably enough for most purposes but can be expanded. If you would like to attach to TWO host systems AND a serial printer (for screen dumps, etc.) then an extra serial interface option is available. That's how mine is set up. (My first host is a PACX terminal switch and the second is the Sun-3/50M also on my desk. My printer is an H-P ThinkJet.) >What software is available for it ? The AT&T literature says >it "all" comes with System V, Release 3. My SVR3.2 manuals >(for the 386) have man pages for layers(1), xt(7) and the like, >but what sort of other tools are available ?? I recall Rob >Pike's posting a few months back saying that the sam editor was >now available from the Toolchest. I've heard of a program called >proof that is a ditroff-previewer, which, if available, would convince >me to order the terminal immediately. The basic layers multiplexing is a standard part of UNIX System V Release 3 ("basic windowing utilities" package). Special applications such as "proof" and "sam" must be obtained from other sources. The 630MTG cross-compilation system is available under separate license and is needed to compile 630 downloadable interactive processes. Otherwise, it is easy to adapt 5620 DMD applications if you have them. I think the AT&T/Teletype folks in Skokie, IL (Dan Wolski, 630 terminal product manager, and crew) can provide additional software availability information as well as a version of the compilation package for use on 4.3BSD (developed primarily at UCSD). I can also help to some degree, although my 630 work is on the back burner for a couple more months. Is it worth the hassle? You bet!
friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl) (01/11/89)
In article <242@hsi86.hsi.UUCP>, stevens@hsi.UUCP (Richard Stevens) writes: > All this discussion about the AT&T 630 terminal (the derivative > of the Blit) got me wondering exactly what it was (I know what > the Blit is/was). I called AT&T and they claim the list price > is $1,225 - I was expecting something in the $2k ballpark (or more). Sorry, AT&T has mislead you. This is the pricing for the 630: Part # Description List ---------- ------------------------- ------ 3344-630 Terminal Controller Base $1,225 33534COL19 Amber 16" Display Monitor 1,080 33537 122-key keyboard 195 33535 SSI/EIA board 300 33536 Mouse 150 ------ TOTAL $2,950 I think all the parts are needed, certainly the base, monitor and keyboard. Even our reseller cost is > $2300, so if you can get it for under $2k then go for it. Steve -- Stephen J. Friedl 3B2-kind-of-guy friedl@vsi.com V-Systems, Inc. I speak for me only attmail!vsi!friedl Santa Ana, CA USA +1 714 545 6442 {backbones}!vsi!friedl -------Nancy Reagan on Usenix in San Diego: "Just say *go*"-------
ayf@cbnews.ATT.COM (avi.y.feldblum) (01/12/89)
In article <1003@vsi.COM> friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl) writes: >Sorry, AT&T has mislead you. This is the pricing for the 630: > > Part # Description List >---------- ------------------------- ------ >3344-630 Terminal Controller Base $1,225 >33534COL19 Amber 16" Display Monitor 1,080 >33537 122-key keyboard 195 >33535 SSI/EIA board 300 >33536 Mouse 150 > ------ > TOTAL $2,950 > >I think all the parts are needed, certainly the base, monitor >and keyboard. The SSI/EIA board is not required, I think you would want that if you want to hook up to two different hosts AND attach a printer to the terminal. Without the board you can have one host on the main port and either a printer or second host on the aux. port. I also think that you want the 98-key keyboard (#33401) rather than the 122 key if you are using it in a Unix type of environment. The 122 has lots of "funny" (at least to me) keys on it that have meaning in an IBM (I think) environment. A second option you may want to consider is part# 33422 which is a 512k RAM card (not required, but lets you cache more stuff in the terminal). <standard disclaimer> This is not an official opinion, etc. I just happen to have a 630, and think it's a great terminal. Avi Feldblum ayf@pruxe.att.com
rja@edison.GE.COM (rja) (01/12/89)
In article <1003@vsi.COM>, friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl) writes: > Sorry, AT&T has mislead you. This is the pricing for the 630: > > Part # Description List > ---------- ------------------------- ------ > 3344-630 Terminal Controller Base $1,225 > 33534COL19 Amber 16" Display Monitor 1,080 > 33537 122-key keyboard 195 > 33535 SSI/EIA board 300 > 33536 Mouse 150 > ------ > TOTAL $2,950 > > I think all the parts are needed, certainly the base, monitor > and keyboard. Even our reseller cost is > $2300, so if you can > get it for under $2k then go for it. The AT&T terminals catalog in front of me does not refer to the SSI/EIA board and specifically indicates that 2 RS-232-C ports are included with the #3344-630 controller. The 122-key keyboard is shown as retailing at $150 now. All told it still looks like around $2500 retail from AT&T. An alternative would be the 620 MTG which is rather cheaper and has many of the same features and capabilities as the 630 MTG: #3344-620 Model 620 MTG Controller $ 800 #33401 98 Key keyboard $ 140 #33450 Mouse $ 165 #33411 14" Monitor (Green/Amber) $ 355 ======================================== TOTAL $1460 The 620 is specifically mentioned as needing either the 5620 DMD software or xt software on the host system to support multiple sessions. ______________________________________________________________________________ rja@edison.GE.COM or ...uunet!virginia!edison!rja via Internet (preferable) via uucp (if you must) ______________________________________________________________________________ These aren't necessarily my employer's opinions. Much of the above are probably trademarks of AT&T
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn ) (01/12/89)
In article <1003@vsi.COM> friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl) writes: >Sorry, AT&T has mislead you. This is the pricing for the 630: > Part # Description List >---------- ------------------------- ------ >3344-630 Terminal Controller Base $1,225 >33534COL19 Amber 16" Display Monitor 1,080 >33537 122-key keyboard 195 >33535 SSI/EIA board 300 >33536 Mouse 150 >I think all the parts are needed, certainly the base, monitor >and keyboard. Even our reseller cost is > $2300, so if you can >get it for under $2k then go for it. I don't know how accurate these prices are; they may well have come down. There are also quantity and, I think, GSA discounts.. The last time I ordered 630s (in August 1988) our costs for small quanities were: Part Name: Comcode: Part Number: $Cost: 1) Controller (640Kb) 501 001 671 553 750 AAA 920.00 2) Monitor 501 001 697 53D 610 YAA 815.00 3) 98-Key Keyboard 501 004 865 56K 420 ADA V2 108.00 4) Mouse, 3-button,red 524 594 157 459 415 115.00 The mouse is essential, as you cannot operate the SET-UP menu without it. The SSI/EIA board is not necessary unless you need more than the two built-in serial ports. Also, I highly DISrecommend the 122-key keyboard, which appears to be patterned after the utterly horrible IBM PC keyboard. The 98-key model is much better (you can't use the extra function keys on the 122-key model anyway). We had some 122-key keyboards by accident and had to exchange them, they were so yucky. I tried a 5620 keyboard, which would have been just about perfect, but it unfortunately doesn't work with the 630. Why do they make keyboards so wide? I need room on my desk for things other than the @#&*^% keyboard, for example the mouse and my coffee cup! The rightmost 6 inches of the 98-key keyboard could be removed and the BREAK key moved onto the remaining keyboard, so far as I am concerned. The arrow keys are pretty much useless in a mouse-oriented world, and the numerical keypad is of interest to data entry clerks but not much else. The extra 6 function keys are a waste of space; they're not programmable like the main set of 8 function keys.
reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) (01/12/89)
In article <9348@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes: >Why do they make keyboards so wide? To annoy us? >I need room on my desk for things other than the @#&*^% keyboard, >for example the mouse and my coffee cup! ^^^^^^^^^^ Glad to see you have your priorities straight, Doug :-) Not only that, when you want to put the damn thing on your lap, you must get chair without arms or else it will not fit!!!! BTW: Anyone remember the original Teletype CRTs? You know the ones with the detachable keyboars which weighed a ton? They were quite useful for doing curls, but put one on your lap and you would cut off the circulation to the legs! -- George W. Leach Paradyne Corporation ..!uunet!pdn!reggie Mail stop LG-129 Phone: (813) 530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 Largo, FL USA 34649-2826
friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl) (01/13/89)
In article <1003@vsi.COM> friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl) writes: [ pricing for the 630 pieces deleted ] In article <9348@smoke.BRL.MIL>, gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn ) writes: > I don't know how accurate these prices are; they may well have > come down. These prices are accurate as of December 1988. As mentioned, they are *list* prices. Steve -- Stephen J. Friedl 3B2-kind-of-guy friedl@vsi.com V-Systems, Inc. I speak for me only attmail!vsi!friedl Santa Ana, CA USA +1 714 545 6442 {backbones}!vsi!friedl ---------Nancy Reagan on Hawaiian musicians: "Just say Ho"--------
debra@alice.UUCP (Paul De Bra) (01/13/89)
In article <5334@pdn.UUCP> reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) writes: >In article <9348@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes: > >>Why do they make keyboards so wide? > > To annoy us? > >>I need room on my desk for things other than the @#&*^% keyboard, >>for example the mouse and my coffee cup! > ^^^^^^^^^^ > Glad to see you have your priorities straight, Doug :-) >... Well, clearly the 630 keyboard (both models), as well as the IBM "advanced" AT-keyboard and the many clones are designed for left-handed people only. You can have the mouse very close to your left hand, and that should be very convenient. (I think one wants to access the mouse more often than the coffeecup.) For right-handed people like me the numeric keypad and the cursor keypad have only one effect: they put the mouse farther away from the usable part of the keyboard. I am still waiting for someone to interface the nice gnot-keyboard to the 630... Paul. -- ------------------------------------------------------ |debra@research.att.com | uunet!research!debra | ------------------------------------------------------
dmt@ptsfa.PacBell.COM (Dave Turner) (01/14/89)
In article <5334@pdn.UUCP> reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) writes: > >BTW: Anyone remember the original Teletype CRTs? You know the ones >with the detachable keyboars which weighed a ton? They were quite >useful for doing curls, but put one on your lap and you would cut off >the circulation to the legs! > Detachable keyboard? The earliest Teletype CRTs that I saw were in 1969-1970. I think they called it the 2510. It was the size of a small desk. It came in two models: one had the crt with 25 (yes 25) lines by 80 columns; the other had the crt screen taller than it was wide. There was space for a built-in modem and the keyboard was similar to a model 37 keyboard. The most memorable feature was that the crt could be tilted to eliminate glare from overhead lights. To change the tilt required that the entire desk top be opened and the tilt adjusted by use of a wrench. Unfortuntately after the crt tilt had been changed the top would not close because it had been molded for one angle of tilt only. -- Dave Turner 415/542-1299 {att,bellcore,sun,ames,pyramid}!pacbell!dmt
ncoverby@ndsuvax.UUCP (Glen Overby) (01/15/89)
In article <9348@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes: >In article <1003@vsi.COM> friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl) writes: >>Sorry, AT&T has mislead you. This is the pricing for the 630: > Part Name: Comcode: Part Number: $Cost: >1) Controller (640Kb) 501 001 671 553 750 AAA 920.00 >2) Monitor 501 001 697 53D 610 YAA 815.00 >3) 98-Key Keyboard 501 004 865 56K 420 ADA V2 108.00 >4) Mouse, 3-button,red 524 594 157 459 415 115.00 I find this price to be a bit above that of the common PC clone. So why hasn't somebody written a a terminal emulator for such a machine which operates somewhat like the BLIT? Even a PC should at least be able to display multiple windows without crawling too badly, and if you put a fancier video adapter (such as EGA or VGA) on the machine, you can have more than 25 lines (this, of course, does bring the price of the PC closer to that of the Real Thing). Maybe it would be better if some relatively terminal-independent "windowed terminal protocol" would be defined (I don't know how much of this already exists with the Blit, and how much of it AT&T will give away). There are obviously are places where machine independence is impossible, such as when the user interface part of an editor is downloaded into the terminal, but this could certainly be accomodated in the protocol. I have seen a program called "uw" which runs on a Macintosh and provides multiple-window access. It's pretty Macintosh-specific but I still thought it as interesting. When your host computer goes down, you can still play games on the PC (or some other marginally productive activity) The coffee cup holder would, of course, be an "optional feature" :-) Glen Overby ncoverby@plains.nodak.edu uunet!ndsuvax!ncoverby ncoverby@ndsuvax (Bitnet)
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (01/16/89)
In this case, yes. The 630 MTG is pretty much a single purpose computer with a ROM based operating system. If memory serves me right, when I opened up a 630 we had, there was a 68K CPU chip, 256K of ROM and 512K of RAM inside. Pretty much like a McIntosh Puls sans disk drive, I suppose. The 630 and the older BLIT terminal run a client / host protocol called layers. The Unix PC can be a layers host, but I don't know if it can be a client too. Unix Windows is a clinet / host protocol too, but certainly much simpler than layers. By the way, uw is available on Amigas, McIntoshes and IBM hardware too. The 630 will probably ultimately be upstaged by the X protocol, but probably only in the sense that layers will disappear. It should be feasible to download an X environment client to run on top of the firmware that is already in the 630. AT&T could come out with new ROMs for the 630 to run X natively, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The most difficult aspect of the 630 to duplicate on an IBM clone would be the physical display. I don't know about all 630s, but the one we had came with a full page 66 line display with a resolution something like 720 * 1024 pixels (the exact number, I forget). All of the IBM clone full page displays I've looked at are agonizingly slow at screen redraws; the 630 is not. --Bill
twolf@homxb.ATT.COM (T.WOLF) (01/17/89)
In article <1467@neoucom.UUCP>, wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: > > computer with a ROM based operating system. If memory serves me > right, when I opened up a 630 we had, there was a 68K CPU chip, 256K > of ROM and 512K of RAM inside. Pretty much like a McIntosh Puls 10Mhz 68K CPU 640K RAM standard (expandable by 512k more) > Unix Windows is a clinet / host protocol too, but certainly much > simpler than layers. By the way, uw is available on Amigas, I missed the previous discussion. Is a 'uw' server available for Unix V machines? I have the uw client on my Atari ST. > The most difficult aspect of the 630 to duplicate on an IBM clone > would be the physical display. I don't know about all 630s, but > the one we had came with a full page 66 line display with a > resolution something like 720 * 1024 pixels (the exact number, I > forget). 1024*1024 16'' display, non-interlaced (60/50 Hz selectable)
cjc@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Chris Calabrese[mav]) (01/17/89)
In article <1467@neoucom.UUCP>, wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: > > The 630 will probably ultimately be upstaged by the X protocol, but > probably only in the sense that layers will disappear. It should > be feasible to download an X environment client to run on top of the > firmware that is already in the 630. AT&T could come out with new > ROMs for the 630 to run X natively, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The 630 includes a ``game port'' for just such rom changes. There was a rumour around here is that the X ``game cartridge'' is at least being looked into, if not already in development, but I haven't heard anything on it in a couple of months. > The most difficult aspect of the 630 to duplicate on an IBM clone > would be the physical display. I don't know about all 630s, but > the one we had came with a full page 66 line display with a > resolution something like 720 * 1024 pixels (the exact number, I > forget). All of the IBM clone full page displays I've looked at > are agonizingly slow at screen redraws; the 630 is not. Yes, they all have the same display. Also, I the display speed is just a symptom of the fact that the 630 has a more powerful CPU than the graphics card on an IBM clone. The graphics cards for IBM's have gotten very inexpensive, but noone ever accused them of being overly fast in memory access or number crunching. Finally, one of the great things about the 630 is that you can download _compiled_ software to it over the serial port. To do this with an IBM clone, you'd have to have it emulate the mc68000 instruction set, which wouldn't exactly be an optimum solution from a speed standpoint. There's a reason these things cost more than a pc clone. -- Name: Christopher J. Calabrese Brain loaned to: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ att!ulysses!cjc cjc@ulysses.att.com Quote: ``I'm sure Henry Spencer will have a .signature on this soon.''
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn ) (01/18/89)
In article <1762@edison.GE.COM> rja@edison.GE.COM (rja) writes: >An alternative would be the 620 MTG which is rather cheaper and >has many of the same features and capabilities as the 630 MTG: Glad you mentioned this. As I recall the 620 doesn't support downloaded code but does have built-in Tektronix 4014 emulation in addition to the usual cursor-oriented terminal emulation. There is also a 615 with even fewer features (just character- oriented terminal emulation on a smaller screen, as I recall). For purposes of the original debate about the relative utility of spiffy vs. dumb terminals, any of these models could stand in for the 630 in the previous discussion. Happens we have several 630s (including my most-used terminal), so I'm more familiar with the deluxe member of the family. >The 620 is specifically mentioned as needing either the 5620 DMD >software or xt software on the host system to support multiple sessions. UNIX System V Release 3 is supposed to come with the (optionally installable) Basic Windowing Utilities package that provides the host support necessary for using the 615, 620, 630, or 5620 in "layers" (multiple-window) mode. For other systems the DMD host software package is available under separate license, and even if your system DOES come with "xt" (layers) protocol support, to build 5620 or 630 downloadable processes (such as the "sam" editor interactive part) you need the appropriate software development package, licensed separately. Both System V and 4.nBSD versions are available (the latter perhaps via AT&T Teletype in Skokie IL rather than the usual Greensboro NC licensing folks).
heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) (01/18/89)
From article <1762@edison.GE.COM>, by rja@edison.GE.COM (rja): > > The AT&T terminals catalog in front of me does not refer to the > SSI/EIA board and specifically indicates that 2 RS-232-C ports > are included with the #3344-630 controller... The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. The SSI/EIA board is needed for this purpose. (The SSI port lets you hook it to a 6500 family controller for access to the Synchronous/IBM world.) > An alternative would be the 620 MTG which is rather cheaper and > has many of the same features and capabilities as the 630 MTG: Yeah, I guess you could say that (I'm in layers on a 620 right now), but the 630 is much better than the 620 in practically all respects. Being limited to only one host is a real beat and this little turkey won't come up in layers across our data switch (an equinox DSS) so I have to use it directly connected to the host. (The 630 does just fine through the switch and I've used it in layers through ISN, Datakit, and 2400 bps dialup) The 4014 graphics terminal mode is pretty nice but the 3b2 graphics software doesn't seem to like it too well. The 630 is a true workstation with a development system available to allow you to run software directly on the multi-tasking resident OS, while the 620 is a merely another ANSI terminal which has a graphics mode and does a really good job on windowing to "layers". It also has some strange ideosyncrasies absent from the 630 (as an example, when you fire up layers it paints the screen with textured video and doesn't give you an initial window. You then need to use the mouse to get to an initial window and do your work. On the 630, it leaves your current window as the first xt window and indicates the use of layers with the tiny "overlapping boxes" icon in the border of the window.) > The 620 is specifically mentioned as needing either the 5620 DMD > software or xt software on the host system to support multiple sessions. The layers support software is supplied with all releases of System V release 3.x that I've seen. The 5620 DMD software doesn't give you anything of use on the 620. Heff
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn ) (01/19/89)
In article <163@flnexus.ATT.COM> heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) writes: >The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for >a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. Not true; it can be configured via the SETUP menus either way (or left unused). >Being limited to only one host is a real beat and this little turkey >won't come up in layers across our data switch (an equinox DSS) so I >have to use it directly connected to the host. Isn't there an "encoding" option you can turn on? The problem is that many terminal switches are not designed to transparently pass, unmolested, all 8 data bits, which are needed in unencoded layers mode. Encoded mode uses just those bit patterns that are likely to make it through such switches. The nicest way to access multiple hosts is via transparent network access (rlogin or equivalent) in a separate window. The fact that data is being routed through the host first connected to is not usually a problem. >The layers support software is supplied with all releases of System V >release 3.x that I've seen. The 5620 DMD software doesn't give you >anything of use on the 620. It does if you don't already HAVE ("xt" protocol) layers support on your host.
debra@alice.UUCP (Paul De Bra) (01/20/89)
In article <163@flnexus.ATT.COM> heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) writes: }From article <1762@edison.GE.COM>, by rja@edison.GE.COM (rja): }> }> The AT&T terminals catalog in front of me does not refer to the }> SSI/EIA board and specifically indicates that 2 RS-232-C ports }> are included with the #3344-630 controller... } }The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for }a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. The }SSI/EIA board is needed for this purpose. Not true!!! The setup-menu lets you select the purpose of the second serial port, and you can connect both ports to hosts without the SSI/EIA board. I am actually using this (and I don't have the SSI/EIA board). This board is intended for people who want to connect to 2 hosts and still hook up a printer too. So most people DON'T need this board at all. (You DO want the black and white monitor though, instead of the default amber. Price is the same. But it looks much nicer.) Paul. -- ------------------------------------------------------ |debra@research.att.com | uunet!research!debra | ------------------------------------------------------
alexb@cfctech.UUCP (Alex Beylin) (01/20/89)
In article <163@flnexus.ATT.COM> heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) writes: >The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for >a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. The >SSI/EIA board is needed for this purpose. (The SSI port lets you >hook it to a 6500 family controller for access to the Synchronous/IBM >world.) My SSI card is still on order, but I am using the two serial ports to connect to two hosts. The trick is to use a null-modem cable for the second serial port - works fine. Alex Beylin, Unix Systems Admin. | +1 313 244 3386 alexb@cfctech.UUCP | Chrysler Financial Corp. alexb%cfctech.uucp@mailgw.cc.umich.edu | MIS, Technical Services {sharkey|mailrus}!cfctech!alexb | 901 Wilshire, Troy, MI ----------------------------------------------------------------- "It feels like Death, but... it doesn't stop." -----------------------------------------------------------------
muller@sdcc7.ucsd.EDU (Keith Muller) (01/20/89)
In article <163@flnexus.ATT.COM>, heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) writes: > The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for > a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. The > SSI/EIA board is needed for this purpose. (The SSI port lets you > hook it to a 6500 family controller for access to the Synchronous/IBM > world.) This is completely wrong. I am using the second port at this moment for a second set of windows. The 630 base controller WITHOUT an optional boards will support two different layers connections. Keith Muller University of California
avr@mtgzy.att.com (a.v.reed) (01/20/89)
In article <163@flnexus.ATT.COM>, heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) writes:
< From article <1762@edison.GE.COM>, by rja@edison.GE.COM (rja):
< >
< > The AT&T terminals catalog in front of me does not refer to the
< > SSI/EIA board and specifically indicates that 2 RS-232-C ports
< > are included with the #3344-630 controller...
<
< The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for
< a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. The
< SSI/EIA board is needed for this purpose.
Not true - right now, I'm using a 630 with two hosts and NO SSI/EIA
board. All you need to do is insert a null modem between the second host
and the "printer" port, and then use "setup" in the "more" submenu to
configure that port for a second host. Try it.
Adam Reed (avr@mtgzy.ATT.COM)dlm@cuuxb.ATT.COM (Dennis L. Mumaugh) (01/20/89)
In article <163@flnexus.ATT.COM> heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) writes: >The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for >a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. The >SSI/EIA board is needed for this purpose. (The SSI port lets you >hook it to a 6500 family controller for access to the Synchronous/IBM >world.) Odd, my 630 interfaced to two different hosts without the extra board. >Yeah, I guess you could say that (I'm in layers on a 620 right now), >but the 630 is much better than the 620 in practically all respects. >Being limited to only one host is a real beat and this little turkey >won't come up in layers across our data switch (an equinox DSS) so I >have to use it directly connected to the host. Funny, my 620 setup menu does have an encoding option. It seems to work okay. >The 4014 graphics terminal mode is pretty nice but the 3b2 graphics >software doesn't seem to like it too well. Odd, I compiled a fractal program with the 4014 graphics library, and it worked. It IS true recent versions of System V Reease 2 & 3 have removed the graphics software and libraies. >While the 620 is a merely another ANSI >terminal which has a graphics mode and does a really good job on windowing >to "layers". It also has some strange ideosyncrasies absent from the >630 (as an example, when you fire up layers it paints the screen with >textured video and doesn't give you an initial window. You then need to >use the mouse to get to an initial window and do your work. I found that you could have windows created automagically with the layers -f option. RTFM. > On the 630, it leaves your current window as the first xt window and indicates the >use of layers with the tiny "overlapping boxes" icon in the border of the >window.) True. Menus and such are much better. Also the default window software has scroll bars, cut and paste and inter-window features that are similar to Open Look -- guess which came first. >The layers support software is supplied with all releases of System V >release 3.x that I've seen. The 5620 DMD software doesn't give you >anything of use on the 620. Not directly, but the icon files are similar and some of the source can be ported -- the difference is a 32 bit WE32100 and a 16 bit MC68000. -- =Dennis L. Mumaugh Lisle, IL ...!{att,lll-crg}!cuuxb!dlm OR cuuxb!dlm@arpa.att.com
wjc@ho5cad.ATT.COM (Bill Carpenter) (01/20/89)
In article <163@flnexus.ATT.COM> heff@flnexus.ATT.COM (Paul_Heffner) writes: > The second serial port on the base controller for the 630 is for > a printer port, you cannot use it for a second host access. The > SSI/EIA board is needed for this purpose. Sorry, but this is not correct. A lot of people have been faked out by that second port. If you stick a null modem on it, it works just fine for a host connection. Of course, if you want to be able to go to two hosts *and* have a printer, then you need the SSI/EIA card. -- -- Bill Carpenter att!ho5cad!wjc or attmail!bill
andrew@alice.UUCP (Andrew Hume) (01/20/89)
actually i think the black and bluish white screen sucks. but luckily unix supports both kinds so each to his or her own.
rwa@auvax.uucp (Ross Alexander) (01/22/89)
In article <8744@alice.UUCP>, debra@alice.UUCP (Paul De Bra) writes: } In article <5334@pdn.UUCP> reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) writes: [....] } Well, clearly the 630 keyboard (both models), as well as the IBM "advanced" } AT-keyboard and the many clones are designed for left-handed people only. } You can have the mouse very close to your left hand, and that should be } very convenient. (I think one wants to access the mouse more often than the } coffeecup.) For right-handed people like me the numeric keypad and the cursor } keypad have only one effect: they put the mouse farther away from the usable } part of the keyboard. I am left handed. I am _very_, _very_ left handed, always have been, & no apologies to anyone about it B-). But, I always put the mouse on the right and use it dextrally. Why? Because it demands only fairly gross motor skills (pointing, and two to three buttons). Whereas the left hand, on any keyboard worthy of the name, is the hand that needs good co-ordination. I mean <CONTROL>, <SHIFT>, <TAB>, and <META> live on the left side almost exclusively, right? And any emacs-hack knows that those are the most important keys on the keyboard, n'est ce' pas ?? Is Richard Stallman left-handed :-) :-) ?? And so, on my 630, my VaxStation, my Sun, and my Atari-ST it's "mouse on the right, left hand does the _clever_ stuff", such as META-SHIFT-< or whatever. And of course, my coffee cups live on the left side too (to avoid swatting them with the mouse, since I never look at the mouse when I'm using it...) Ross
jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (John F. Haugh II) (01/24/89)
In article <465@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> rwa@auvax.uucp (Ross Alexander) writes: >I am left handed. I am _very_, _very_ left handed, always have been, >& no apologies to anyone about it B-). But, I always put the mouse on >the right and use it dextrally. Why? Because if you put it on the left, you'd be using it sinisterly ;-) Sorry. I just had to. I am also a militant left-hander ... -- John F. Haugh II +-Ad of the Week:---------------------- VoiceNet: (214) 250-3311 Data: -6272 |"Your hole is our goal" InterNet: jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US | -- Gearhart Wireline Services UucpNet : <backbone>!killer!rpp386!jfh +------ Shrevesport, LA -------------
hutch@lzaz.ATT.COM (R.HUTCHISON) (02/08/89)
From article <1003@vsi.COM>, by friedl@vsi.COM (Stephen J. Friedl):
] In article <242@hsi86.hsi.UUCP>, stevens@hsi.UUCP (Richard Stevens) writes:
]> All this discussion about the AT&T 630 terminal (the derivative
]> of the Blit) got me wondering exactly what it was (I know what
]> the Blit is/was). I called AT&T and they claim the list price
]> is $1,225 - I was expecting something in the $2k ballpark (or more).
]
] Sorry, AT&T has mislead you. This is the pricing for the 630:
]
] Part # Description List
] ---------- ------------------------- ------
] 3344-630 Terminal Controller Base $1,225
] 33534COL19 Amber 16" Display Monitor 1,080
] 33537 122-key keyboard 195
] 33535 SSI/EIA board 300
] 33536 Mouse 150
] ------
] TOTAL $2,950
]
] I think all the parts are needed, certainly the base, monitor
] and keyboard. Even our reseller cost is > $2300, so if you can
] get it for under $2k then go for it.
]
] Steve
]
] --
] Stephen J. Friedl 3B2-kind-of-guy friedl@vsi.com
] V-Systems, Inc. I speak for me only attmail!vsi!friedl
] Santa Ana, CA USA +1 714 545 6442 {backbones}!vsi!friedl
] -------Nancy Reagan on Usenix in San Diego: "Just say *go*"-------
Three suggestions:
1) Don't order the 122-key keyboard unless you are used to synchronous
terminals and aren't going to use it for UNIX\f(rg System access. Get
the 98 character keyboard.
2) Don't order the SSI/EIA card unless you need access to two
terminals PLUS a printer. You can use the second serial port (with a
null modem?) for access to a second host.
3) If you can afford it, order the extra memory especially if you are
going to download anything substantial.
NOTE: you can also a black and white (light blue?) screen instead of
the amber screen. I also like the red mouse over the logitech (flat)
mouse.
Bob Hutchison
att!lzaz!hutch