strianta@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Spiros Trianta) (03/25/89)
Hats off to AT&T for its right choices regarding the AT&T 6300 PC (a PC
compatible computer).
In my two years of owning one I have experienced two memory board failures,
each at approximately 13-14 months after purchase / repair. Same thing
on one machine at work.
The board not only dies, but starts giving indications of disk failure
that are very scary, i.e. random disk seeks/resets on C:.
On top of that, whereas the replacement (SWAP, not new) board cost $120
last year, it now jumped to $200. That is, $200 for a used board (that will
statistically fail in another year or so).
------------
For misc.consumers readers: end of gripe/article, you've been warned.
------------
For others: would you know of a different company that sells 384KB
memory boards that would work n a 63000? I'll see if I can
swap 64K chips for 256K chips, if anyone knows how, please
drop a line.
Thanks in advance
Spiros
--
Who: Spiros Trianta <> Where: Noblesville, Indiana
How: strianta@killer.UUCP <> Quote: "Look Ma, No K-Mart!"ss60x@sdcc7.ucsd.EDU (ss60x) (03/26/89)
>> Flame on 6300 >>
Obviously the 6300 is hardly state of the art. But we have been
running
about 30 6300's for around 5 years with essentially no maintenance
costs. (I am sure the machine gods will cause massive failures over
the next week to teach me about hubris).
We bought the 6300's when the competition was a 4MH IBM PC with
extra costs for a CGA. ATT has 640x400 res - it is a shame that
everhyone went for hercules standard, but I still think the 6300
was a good choice. Why anyone bought one in the last year or two is
a mystery to me.
BTW Credit for the machine is not due to ATT but Olivetti. Perhaps
the new problems are due to ATT.
Neal Beck
Dept. of Pol. Sci.
beck@ucsd.edufmcgee@cuuxb.ATT.COM (~XT6510300~Frank McGee~C23~M24~6326~) (03/26/89)
In article <7634@killer.Dallas.TX.US> strianta@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Spiros Trianta) writes: >Hats off to AT&T for its right choices regarding the AT&T 6300 PC (a PC >compatible computer). >In my two years of owning one I have experienced two memory board failures, >each at approximately 13-14 months after purchase / repair. Same thing >on one machine at work. >The board not only dies, but starts giving indications of disk failure >that are very scary, i.e. random disk seeks/resets on C:. Is it the AT&T memory expansion board, or some clone memory board ? This is the first I've ever heard of anyone having this kind of trouble on a 6300, and I know well over several hundred users of 6300's. >On top of that, whereas the replacement (SWAP, not new) board cost $120 >last year, it now jumped to $200. That is, $200 for a used board (that will >statistically fail in another year or so). No matter what you buy, the cost of maintaining it will go up from year to year. Doesn't matter if it's old cars or old pc's; the cost of maintaining it will go up, and parts will be harder to get. >For others: would you know of a different company that sells 384KB > memory boards that would work n a 63000? I'll see if I can > swap 64K chips for 256K chips, if anyone knows how, please > drop a line. AST sells a very nice one that's the same board we sell for the 6300. -- Frank McGee, AT&T Tier 3 Indirect Channel Sales Support attmail!fmcgee
tim@scsmo1.UUCP (03/27/89)
Here at The Soil Conservation Service, we buy 6300s and they fail with great reugularity. New ones, old ones, they all will die and have to be fixed. We have had slightly better luck with the 6386s but time will tell. You ask why buy an new 6300? Well have have this "goverment contract" that says we can only buy what EDS wants to sell us and it is 6300 vs 6386 vs 3b2. So sometimes we get need the lowest cost option. More of Your goverment at work! (For those in the US :-) Tim Hogard Soil Conservation Service Columbia Missouri tim@scsmo1.uucp
strianta@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Spiros Trianta) (03/27/89)
In article <2652@cuuxb.ATT.COM> fmcgee@cuuxb.UUCP (Frank W. McGee) writes: >In article <7634@killer.Dallas.TX.US> strianta@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Spiros Trianta) writes: >>Hats off to AT&T for its right choices regarding the AT&T 6300 PC (a PC >>compatible computer). >>In my two years of owning one I have experienced two memory board failures, >>each at approximately 13-14 months after purchase / repair. Same thing >>on one machine at work. >>The board not only dies, but starts giving indications of disk failure >>that are very scary, i.e. random disk seeks/resets on C:. > >Is it the AT&T memory expansion board, or some clone memory board ? This >is the first I've ever heard of anyone having this kind of trouble on a >6300, and I know well over several hundred users of 6300's. > Even more news. I removed the memory board all together and it still happens (it meaning random C: resets) but with less frequency. Last time it also happened like that and eventually the disk errors stopped happening and memory parity errors started, at which point we replaced the 384K board and all was well. Now as I said it still happens, less frequently. So it could be something OTHER than the memory board although as I said th frequency is much less. A buddy at work suggests power supplies. Dip swictes are set properly for 256KB on the motherboard... As I said, Hats off to AT&T. I get the feeling that in addition to paying big bucks for replacing whatever is gone haywire I'll be paying more bucks at $90/hour for one of their technicians to FIND the bug in the first place... And although I understand that spare part prices rise, doubling in price is not what I have in mind for only a year. When I bought the machine this is what it came with, others that bought theirs at around the same time had 640K on the motherboard. The right chouce? not for me. Maybe others have posted notes on 100 machines running fine for five years but MINE is not... Anyone wanna buy it for parts? Spiros -- Who: Spiros Trianta <> Where: Noblesville, Indiana How: strianta@killer.UUCP <> Why: Nothing Else Interesting To Do
mhampson@wpi.wpi.edu (Mark A. Hampson) (03/27/89)
Ah yes, the AT&T 6300. Mostly compatible and now even somewhat supported.
BUT
Here at WPI we made a decision 4 years ago (with some incentive from AT&T) to
go with the AT&T 6300 as the campus supported computer. Good or bad this is
the history that we have had:
THere are upwards of 2000 of the machines on this campus and two full time
people and several part time people very busy fixing them. Many of our
problems are not directly attributed to the 6300 but there are quite a few
that are. The two biggest flaws that I have found in the system have to do
with the keyboards and the cooling air flow.
For those of you not familiar with the innerds of the 6300, the keyboard
consists of graphite dots on the backs of the keys that make contact by
connecting two sets of exposed traces on the PC board below. What happens
is that crud (dandruf, dust, etc.) gets in between the contact and the traces
and that key no longer operates properly. We use these in student labs where
they see 16 hours of really tough use every day. When a key gets sticky, hit
it harder.
The air flow path is simple and does cool the power supply but sources most of
its air through the floppy disk drives. Not too bad unless you plan on using
the drives. We have a system that is used exclusively from floppy that is
running the entire time that the lab is open and after a few weeks, the disks
that are in the drives are tan (instead of black).
Beyond these complaints, these machine seem to kill power supplies with pretty
high regularity. Most of the problems that we have had of late have to do
with really cheap extras. Since those of us who run the lab do not get to
order the peripherals (some one who thinks they know what is going on does),
we end up with the cheapest of everything.
If you want something to last, do not purchase any of the following:
I2 hardcards (we ordered 100 nine months ago, 37 dead as of last count)
Shikosha printers (they don't even have line or form feed buttons)
(really poor print quality, especially in graphics mode)
We have had a series of odd incompatibility problems with the 6300 and the
CAD package that we use (CADKEY). Most of this has been attributed to the
way the 8086 in the 6300 interreleates in an 8088 environment.
If you have a software package that acts funny on a 6300, don't blame the
software, the 6300 is an almost clone.
--
Mark A. Hampson WPI Mechanical Engineering
Internet: mhampson@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester, MA 01609 USA
(508) 831-5498
No matter where you go...there you are. (Buckaroo)hjespers@vpk4.UUCP (Hans Jespersen) (03/27/89)
In article <1500002@scsmo1.UUCP> tim@scsmo1.UUCP writes: >You ask why buy an new 6300? Well have have this "goverment contract" that >says we can only buy what EDS wants to sell us and it is 6300 vs 6386 vs 3b2. >So sometimes we get need the lowest cost option. >More of Your goverment at work! (For those in the US :-) I can just hear the conversation at EDS. Person1:How do we get these guys at the Soil Conservation Service to buy 3B2s ? Person2:Easy, don't give them any choice, they have to buy from us. P1: Nooo, we can't do that, we have to give them _some_ choice. P2: Ok, then give them some really bad alternatives. DOS machines maybe. P1: Ya, that's it, 6300s. They will never buy those. --------- serveral weeks later ------- P1: Oh, no. P2: What is it. P1: Remember those guys at SCS? They bought the 6300s. :-( -- Hans Jespersen UUCP: uunet!attcan!hjespers AT&T Canada Inc. or ..!attcan!nebulus!arakis!hans Toronto, Ontario #include <std.disclaimer> "Yabba Dabba Doo" -- F. Flintstone
ked@garnet.berkeley.edu (Earl H. Kinmonth) (03/28/89)
In article <4555@vpk4.UUCP> hjespers@attcan.UUCP (Hans Jespersen) writes: >In article <1500002@scsmo1.UUCP> tim@scsmo1.UUCP writes: > >>You ask why buy an new 6300? Well have have this "goverment contract" that Perhaps Olivetti got sloppy. I can only speak from experience. I have a 6300 that has been running almost continuously for three years. In that time I've had two hardware problems: (a) the V-30 chip I had stuck in in place of the 8086 died (can't blame that on ATT) and (b) the numeral five (5) got bouncy (cure: pull the key and clean it).
guzzi@multimax (Mark D. Guzzi) (03/28/89)
I have had a pc6300 in use almost every day since 1984 (the first on my block) and have had no hardware problems at all except the occasional dirty key contact (takes about 10 seconds to pull the key off and clean the contact -- not a big deal). -- -- Mark Guzzi Encore Computer Corporation guzzi@encore.com (or guzzi@multimax.encore.com)
hsu@kampi.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) (03/29/89)
In article <5375@xenna.Encore.COM> guzzi@multimax (Mark D. Guzzi) writes: >occasional dirty key contact (takes about 10 seconds to pull the key Its surprising that Olivetti hasn't done anything about this, as I often hear about this problem? I also clean up keys sometimes, but its quite easy with that keyboard so its not too annoying. Computer is 3 years old. One display blew up, though I suspect two local coal power stations to be the reason for it, all my displays change colour darker in few months, and I don't smoke... I just wonder, what it looks like inside, when outside looks like we just had a fire here even when I cleaned it up just two months ago :-) - hsu@fingate.BITNET ..!mcvax!santra!hsu Heikki Suonsivu @ 2:504/1 2:504/7 hsu@santra.hut.fi hsu@kampi.hut.fi Kuutamokatu 5 A 7/02210 Espoo/FINLAND voice +358-0-171377 fax -628948 v22bis -171558 swap, swap
bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) (03/30/89)
In article <2652@cuuxb.ATT.COM>, fmcgee@cuuxb.ATT.COM (~XT6510300~Frank McGee~C23~M24~6326~) writes: > In article <7634@killer.Dallas.TX.US> strianta@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Spiros Trianta) writes: > >In my two years of owning one I have experienced two memory board failures, > >each at approximately 13-14 months after purchase / repair. Same thing > >on one machine at work. > >The board not only dies, but starts giving indications of disk failure > >that are very scary, i.e. random disk seeks/resets on C:. Also, is the equipment: 1. Verified to be getting a *good* ground? (Most commercial and residential convenience-outlets provide poor grounds, and sometimes aren't even connected. In one building [brand new, by the way] we had to install a seperate ground-cable for the computer equipment because the code-approved grounding was obtained by attachment to the conduit: ok for running typewriters, etc., but won't hack it for electronics eqt. Have it checked by someone competent.) 2. Getting power that is "conditioned" to kill transient spikes and other variences? Better, is the equipment on an uninterruptable power supply? When power returns after failure, the spikes can be really awesome in the first few cycles. The long-term effects of poor power *can* generate exactly the kinds of symptoms you have described, and standard commercial power is rarely very stable. Hope this helps. Bud Hovell :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : USENET: {attmail! | tektronix!percival! | pacbell!safari!} whizz!bbh : : TELEX: 152258436 (Whizz/Bud Hovell) VOICE: +1 503-636-3000 : : PAPER: Overture Systems Corp, PO Box 1812, Lake Oswego, Oregon USA 97035 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "You may not be interested in strategy - but strategy is interested in you."
dave@westmark.UUCP (Dave Levenson) (04/01/89)
In article <574@whizz.uucp>, bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) writes: > The long-term effects of poor power *can* generate exactly the kinds of > symptoms you have described, and standard commercial power is rarely very > stable. We support about 50 desktop computers at six customer locations. About 30 of these are AT&T 63xx family machines (6300's, 6300PLUS's, 6310's, 6312's -- no 6386's yet). The rest are IBM XT's, AT's, and IBM-compatible clones. Some are networked (AT&T Starlan). The network servers and a few of the workstations are powered by UPS systems. The power supply failure rate for UPS-protected and non-protected AT&T machines is the same. A typical AT&T desktop system experiences a power supply failure every 2 years. Of the twenty IBM and compatibles, only one has experienced a power supply failure. They are generally twice the age of the AT&T equipment. A refurbished AT&T power supply, with the defective one in exchange, costs us ~ $150 or so from AT&T NPSC. A brand new IBM-compatible power supply costs us about $40 from the local importer. -- Dave Levenson Westmark, Inc. The Man in the Mooney Warren, NJ USA {rutgers | att}!westmark!dave
strianta@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Spiros Trianta) (04/02/89)
In article <574@whizz.uucp> bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) writes: > 1. Verified to be getting a *good* ground? (Most commercial and > residential convenience-outlets provide poor grounds, and sometimes > aren't even connected. In one building [brand new, by the way] we > > 2. Getting power that is "conditioned" to kill transient spikes and > other variences? Better, is the equipment on an uninterruptable > power supply? When power returns after failure, the spikes can be > really awesome in the first few cycles. > It is assumed that the machine (6300) is capable of operating in such conditions, isn't AT&T the one that had these slick commercials with the sweating yuppies discussing the merits of their AT&T equipment operating in less than ideal conditions? The machine *is* on a surge suppressor (the $20 dollar variety). Power seems to be pretty good in the area, it is all new equipment and new house. >Hope this helps. I sure hope so too! I'll try to connect some commercial power meter to the power outlet and see what's going on. Thank you for the tip! Spiros -- Who: Spiros Trianta <> Where: Noblesville, Indiana How: strianta@killer.UUCP <> Why: Nothing Else Interesting To Do