lenny@icus.islp.ny.us (Lenny Tropiano) (02/17/90)
In article <15903@cs.yale.edu> yarvin-norman@CS.YALE.EDU (Norman Yarvin) writes: |>In article <3220@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU> rhealey@ub.d.umn.edu.UUCP (Rob Healey) writes: [... lots of views (good and bad) on porting X to the 3B1 environment ...] |> |>3) Yet more hacking of the window driver... but there is an alternative: |>changing Mike Ditto's keyboard driver to output to a user process when mouse |>buttons are pressed and the meta key is down (for instance). This user |>process would then resize windows, etc. |> |>Well, sounds like it'd be easier to port Mgr... |> Can you say, "it's been done... it's running... it's going to be released real soon now..." (I knew you could!) Bellcore's MGR has been ported to the UNIX pc. Yes, another window environment that has the benefits of being able to use the entire screen, user-level code (no wind driver), ease of window reshaping, resizing, moving, etc... Lots more too! I just picked up the second copy of MGR tonight, this since the first which I got a couple of days before the USENIX Winter 1990 UNIX PC BOF in January. Please see the USENIX BOF Minutes posted to unix-pc.general, comp.sys.att recently regarding what went on about MGR at the BOF. I haven't compiled it, in fact I haven't even unpacked it. Thanks to Brad Bosch <brad@i88.isc.com -or- pacbell!sun!laidbak!brad> for doing the great work on porting MGR! The beta copies given out at the BOF are extremely outdated, according to Brad. The newest copy (as of tonight) has mucho improvements, fixes, etc... No, I cannot give out copies to everyone. No, it's not going up for anonymous uucp (yet). No, not anonymous ftp yet either. Brad *WILL* make an announcement to this release very shortly. Please be patient. BTW: Regarding Item #3 above, Brad did just that. /dev/mouse is part of the kbd driver (a hacked Ditto version). -Lenny -- | Lenny Tropiano ICUS Software Systems lenny@icus.islp.ny.us | | {ames,pacbell,decuac,hombre,sbcs,attctc}!icus!lenny attmail!icus!lenny | +------- ICUS Software Systems -- PO Box 1; Islip Terrace, NY 11752 -------+
rhealey@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU (Rob Healey) (02/20/90)
In article <1095@icus.islp.ny.us> lenny@icus.islp.ny.us (Lenny Tropiano) writes: >Bellcore's MGR has been ported to the UNIX pc. Yes, another window >environment that has the benefits of being able to use the entire screen, >user-level code (no wind driver), ease of window reshaping, resizing, >moving, etc... Lots more too! > >BTW: Regarding Item #3 above, Brad did just that. /dev/mouse is part >of the kbd driver (a hacked Ditto version). > Umm, does this clobber the features of the 3.51m keyboard driver in the process? Since the need for the new kbd driver was eliminated with 3.51m can the extra code for MGR be installed seperate from the unneeded kbd code? Also, can MGR be run on systems without the user mode video hardware "patch"? Some of us college aged paupers can't afford cushy extras like food and a roof over our heads let alone hardware mods to our toys... B^(. -Rob
lenny@icus.islp.ny.us (Lenny Tropiano) (02/20/90)
In article <3226@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU> rhealey@ub.d.umn.edu (Rob Healey) writes: |>In article <1095@icus.islp.ny.us> lenny@icus.islp.ny.us (Lenny Tropiano) writes: |>>Bellcore's MGR has been ported to the UNIX pc. Yes, another window |>>environment that has the benefits of being able to use the entire screen, |>>user-level code (no wind driver), ease of window reshaping, resizing, |>>moving, etc... Lots more too! |>> |>>BTW: Regarding Item #3 above, Brad did just that. /dev/mouse is part |>>of the kbd driver (a hacked Ditto version). |>> |> Umm, does this clobber the features of the 3.51m keyboard driver in |> the process? Since the need for the new kbd driver was eliminated |> with 3.51m can the extra code for MGR be installed seperate from |> the unneeded kbd code? |> Yes, the summary says it all. The kbd driver will and does clobber the features of the 3-key functions for the 3.51m kernel/wind driver combo. Thanks to Gil Kloepfer <gil%limbic@ames.arc.nasa.gov> and his posting of kfeature(1) this is no longer a problem. All of the "important" features can be turned on and off with this. |> Also, can MGR be run on systems without the user mode video hardware |> "patch"? Some of us college aged paupers can't afford cushy extras |> like food and a roof over our heads let alone hardware mods to our |> toys... B^(. |> No MGR requires the VIDPAL. I assume someone could hack a rastop() interface but that would be slooooowwww... -Lenny -- | Lenny Tropiano ICUS Software Systems lenny@icus.islp.ny.us | | {ames,pacbell,decuac,hombre,sbcs,attctc}!icus!lenny attmail!icus!lenny | +------- ICUS Software Systems -- PO Box 1; Islip Terrace, NY 11752 -------+
botton@i88.isc.com (Brian D. Botton) (02/22/90)
In article <3226@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU> rhealey@ub.d.umn.edu (Rob Healey) writes: >In article <1095@icus.islp.ny.us> lenny@icus.islp.ny.us (Lenny Tropiano) writes: >>Bellcore's MGR has been ported to the UNIX pc. Yes, another window >>environment that has the benefits of being able to use the entire screen, >>user-level code (no wind driver), ease of window reshaping, resizing, >>moving, etc... Lots more too! >> >>BTW: Regarding Item #3 above, Brad did just that. /dev/mouse is part >>of the kbd driver (a hacked Ditto version). >> > Umm, does this clobber the features of the 3.51m keyboard driver in > the process? Since the need for the new kbd driver was eliminated > with 3.51m can the extra code for MGR be installed seperate from > the unneeded kbd code? The keyboard driver has to be replaced, changes had to be made to support the mouse the way Mgr needs it supported. The code doesn't interfere with UA, so you don't have to worry about that. As far as loosing the neat new features, the kfeature program that was posted, by Gil?, lets you do some of them. For the others, you get source, so you can do what you want. Maybe not as convenient, but you don't really loose much. Mgr also requires a new version of the pty device driver. Not only have a few bugs been fixed, but select is included. This version of select allows multiple processes to call select at once, unlike the select that was released last summer. It only implements the readfds part, but the stubs for writefds and exceptfds are present. > > Also, can MGR be run on systems without the user mode video hardware > "patch"? Some of us college aged paupers can't afford cushy extras > like food and a roof over our heads let alone hardware mods to our > toys... B^(. > There is absolutely no way that Mgr will work without the vidpal daughter board. The partial kit costs $10, and the rest of the parts run an additional $15 or so. For those who would like the partial kit, send me e-mail. For those who are wondring, Brad has spent over 6 months working on the port. Usually spending an hour or so every night and a significant portion of his weekend on his machine. His wife has been more than understanding about his obsession, ;-). I had hoped to help him more, but I have spent my free time with my new girl friend and shipping kits. Anyway, Mgr is now in beta test with a few people other than myself, so it should be more widely available soon. Some people have asked "why use Mgr?". For one thing, it is a far superior program developement environment. It also has some neat features that are similar to X. It is fairly fast, and you have source, so if you don't like something, you can fix/change it. Also, Brad has fixed it up so you can run UA or Mgr, or UA within Mgr, or Mgr within UA, so you don't have to give up things like install. I wouldn't mind seeing X on the 3B1, but the people/persons who work on it should understand that it will take a significant chunk of your time. Also, with the hardware limitations of the 3B1/7300, I'm afraid the result might not be what was expected. -- ... ___ *** _][_n_n___i_i ________ ******* Brian D. Botton (____________I_I______I_I_______I laidbak!botton or /ooOOOO OOOOoo oo oooo oo oo laidbak!bilbo!brian
horn@rt2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn) (02/23/90)
In article <1100@icus.islp.ny.us> lenny@icus.islp.ny.us (Lenny Tropiano) writes: >No MGR requires the VIDPAL. I assume someone could hack a rastop() interface >but that would be slooooowwww... OK, then where can I get my hands on VIDPAL? Is this a kit or just instrux? I'm very interested in getting MGR running. Primarily because I'm curious. Anyway, any info is appreciated . . . Thanks, - sparkie -- ___ ___ ___ ___ _ _ _ ___ / __\| . \/ . \| . \| |/ /|_|| _ | "Mothers Against Skunks Drivig... \___\| __/| || _ /| < | || _[ ...because stinking and driving don't mix" \___/|_| |_|_||_|\\|_|\_\|_||___| - heard on a madison radio station ARPA: harier!sparkie@cs.wisc.edu, sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu UUCP: ...{harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!harier!sparkie