bes@holin.ATT.COM (Bradley Smith) (03/29/90)
I have some things for those of you out there using MGR.
First of all, I love it - those of you who think you might want to
try it, should. The programming interface to the screen and mouse
is so much more natural. The only thing is I still need the windowing
for is DOS-73 graphics, but text DOS-73 stuff runs (sort of).
I am working ontrying to figure out if ua works with out the window
driver installed(did I miss something here, appears not to).
But on with the disccusion. Below are some thoughts/suggestions
open that I would like to here more about.
1 - First of all I took the select/pty that came with MGR and
put it in the socket code (yes the select was much cleaner
than my way, but I not afraid to say it!). So now I have
MGR code working with alex's socket (UNIX domain). Makes
using code for both easier (yes there is now code in the
new select for sockets as well).
2 - added function key definition to set_emacs (maybe we should make
this a 'BBB1' ifdef.
3 - I would like to add a menu item to the reshape to create a new
window. Sometimes I have the whole window used and want another
window, I guess one could use 'left-control(next to space) n' or
'left-control(next to space) N'. But a menu item would make it
more complete.
4 - Maybe make the newwindow (when using mouse) allow different
emulators (see next note). Currently you get a 'MGR' term.
5 - I am working on taking the 'Vtem' source and making it work
under MGR (I did that). but I want to make it look like other
things then just a vt100 (maybe via terminfo or a driver that
you write and recompile in). Any way if this gets working
I might want to have this come up if selecting a new window.
FYI: I am working on saving a buffer like xterm so you can
go back on it (with scroll bar and all).
So what else is going on?
brad smith
--
Bradley Smith
Telecommunications Solutions Development
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
201-949-0090 att!holin!bes or bes@holin.ATT.COMrhaar@rcsac1.UUCP (Bob Haar CS50) (03/29/90)
In article <930@holin.ATT.COM> bes@holin.ATT.COM (Bradley Smith) writes: >I have some things for those of you out there using MGR. > >I am working ontrying to figure out if ua works with out the window >driver installed(did I miss something here, appears not to). > From what I know about the User Agent (UA), it will not run under mgr without changing one or the other. I don't suppose that we can get our hands on the source for UA, can we? On the other hand, it should be straight forward to re-implement a UA look-a-like with the same functionality - or even improve on it. Shall we give it a try? Does anyone know if the SMART software will run under mgr? Bob Haar GM Research Labs
horn@rt5.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn) (04/05/90)
In article <22800@rcsac1.UUCP> rhaar@rcsac1.UUCP (Bob Haar CS50) writes: [ ... ] >are not techniacally part of UA, but I think about them as part of the >UA environment. MGR sounds great - fast, powerful, cleaner, etc. - but >I would really like to know what I might be giving up to get it. Well, against recommendations I am running with UA intact. Meaning that if I exit mgr, I can just type ua and ua comes up as usual. And everything that depended on ua will still work properly. It does have some wierd side effects though. Since I run the phone manager, when ever I answer my phone and I'm in mgr, the phone manager will write directly to the screen and screw up things royally. Fortunatly they're easy to clean up (most of the time) The reason that I run the ua is simply because I have a voice power board set up as an answering machine, so I need wind.o loaded so that I can use ve to listen to my messages. If I could figure out how to keep the phone manager and also have it not write to the screen, and have a voice editor that didn't depend on the things that Lenny described, I'd be pretty happy. I also have about 100 phone numbers stored in the phone manager which I do NOT want to have to transfer to a rolo-dex, etc. >SMART does use special font sets that are now part of the system font library. >It (at least the word processer part) doesn't do any fancy graphics. Since >it is a commercial product, I don't have access source code or much info >about how it works internally. I don't know how it handles windows or fonts. I have MS Word and it works pretty well under mgr. I can't use the mouse at all the way I did under UA, but there seems to be a key sequance equivalant for each mouse click anyway, so I don't lose any functionality. >AS for trying MGR, I thought it was still under test? Since the only connection >between my unix-pc (grendl) and the rest of the world is the 1200 baud OBM, >I planned to wait until the unix-pc version of mgr became stable before >downloading the 1+ MBytes of the mgr distribution package. I don't know what you define as stable, but I have yet to have any "real" problems with mgr. (i.e. it hasn't crashed my machine nor destroyed data.) Actually the only problems I've had with mgr haven't really bin the fault of mgr. Remember this has been used on Sun's for a while, so as a peice of software it's pretty stable. Not quite integrated perfectly with the 3b1 yet, but it sure makes this machine alot more reasonable to program on. Switching windows is a breeze! BTW, wait until you compile mgr. On my machine with a 28ms HD and 1Meg of memory it took about 5 hours. On another machine (which I use) which has the same HD but 2Meg of memory it took 1 hr 35 min. Which brings up another point. On my machine (1 Meg mem) it can be pretty slow. Not terrible, but significantly slower then on the 2Meg machine I use. > - Bob Haar I guess I'm rambling here, but before I go I have to give kudos to Brad Bosch for the port and to Brian Botton for the VIDPAL. My machine is so much more fun now to actually program on instead of just have because it's unix that I could afford. So I'm all for anyone doing anything with mgr. Speaking of which . . . is Lenny going to port sysinfo to mgr . . . ? . . . please? Or maybe I should start this endeaver? - sparkie -- ___ ___ ___ ___ _ _ _ ___ / __\| . \/ . \| . \| |/ /|_|| _ | "Mothers Against Skunks Driving... \___\| __/| || _ /| < | || _[ ...because stinking and driving don't mix" \___/|_| |_|_||_|\\|_|\_\|_||___| - heard on a madison radio station ARPA: harier!sparkie@cs.wisc.edu, sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu UUCP: ...{harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!harier!sparkie
botton@i88.isc.com (Brian D. Botton) (04/10/90)
In article <4613@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> horn@rt5.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn) writes: > >Well, against recommendations I am running with UA intact. Meaning that if I >exit mgr, I can just type ua and ua comes up as usual. And everything that >depended on ua will still work properly. It does have some wierd side effects >though. Since I run the phone manager, when ever I answer my phone and >I'm in mgr, the phone manager will write directly to the screen and screw up >things royally. Fortunatly they're easy to clean up (most of the time) The >reason that I run the ua is simply because I have a voice power board set >up as an answering machine, so I need wind.o loaded so that I can use ve to >listen to my messages. If I could figure out how to keep the phone manager >and also have it not write to the screen, and have a voice editor that didn't >depend on the things that Lenny described, I'd be pretty happy. I also have >about 100 phone numbers stored in the phone manager which I do NOT want to >have to transfer to a rolo-dex, etc. You can fix this problem easily with a define. In the src/port directory, edit the Makefile so that -DUA is not commented out. This will make the top line of the window untouchable as far as Mgr is concerned, so your phone and window icons won't be messed up. This also allows you to run smgr without any problems. I'll talk to Brad about putting this into the README.3B1. Just as a note for others, Mgr works a whole lot better if you disable the blinking cursor and the working icon. The 3b1 directory has the stuff to do this. > . . . >windows is a breeze! BTW, wait until you compile mgr. On my machine with a >28ms HD and 1Meg of memory it took about 5 hours. On another machine (which I >use) which has the same HD but 2Meg of memory it took 1 hr 35 min. Which brings >up another point. On my machine (1 Meg mem) it can be pretty slow. Not >terrible, but significantly slower then on the 2Meg machine I use. > When I went from 1.5Meg to 3.5Meg I didn't really notice anything running faster, except the compile of blit.c. Of that 5 hours compile time, 4 hours was the optimizer trying to optimize blit.s, before it bombs and gives up. With my 1.5Meg machine it took about 10 minutes, if I remember correctly. Anyway, I never ran with 1Meg, but with 1.5Meg and up I don't think anyone will be able to tell if Mgr is running slow. The extra memory does help compiling it, but once its done, it takes little memory. Running size on Mgr you get: 173588 + 69948 + 11976 = 255512 > >I guess I'm rambling here, but before I go I have to give kudos to Brad Bosch >for the port and to Brian Botton for the VIDPAL. My machine is so much more I'm sure I can speak for Brad, you're welcome. >fun now to actually program on instead of just have because it's unix that I >could afford. So I'm all for anyone doing anything with mgr. Speaking of >which . . . is Lenny going to port sysinfo to mgr . . . ? . . . please? >Or maybe I should start this endeaver? > How about it Lenny? Something like perfmeter, or is that perfmon, on the Suns would be real nice. -- ... ___ *** _][_n_n___i_i ________ ******* Brian D. Botton (____________I_I______I_I_______I laidbak!botton or /ooOOOO OOOOoo oo oooo oo oo laidbak!bilbo!brian
lenny@icus.ICUS.COM (Lenny Tropiano) (04/12/90)
In article <1990Apr10.064200.17245@i88.isc.com> botton@i88.isc.com (Brian D. Botton) writes: |>In article <4613@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> horn@rt5.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn) writes: |>> [...] |>>fun now to actually program on instead of just have because it's unix that I |>>could afford. So I'm all for anyone doing anything with mgr. Speaking of |>>which . . . is Lenny going to port sysinfo to mgr . . . ? . . . please? |>>Or maybe I should start this endeaver? |>> |> |> How about it Lenny? Something like perfmeter, or is that perfmon, on the |>Suns would be real nice. Sounds like a nice project for me. As soon as things calm down, here I might be able to do it. Right now since I'm actively looking for a new job (anyone have a suggestion in this department?), this is taking up a lot of my time. Fighting the flu doesn't help either. When I wrote sysinfo I never dreamed it would be such a hit. I guess now I'd miss not having something there telling me what's going on. I guess with MGR you could easily hack sysinfo to just print the stuff, instead of call the ioctl's to write to the UNIX pc SLK lines. That way you could invoke a small 80 character x 2 line window with this running in it. That's probably the quick hack... Anyone have a better suggestion? Maybe a graphical representation of the load avereage and filesystem (like an gas gauge of sorts) would be nice... -Lenny -- | Lenny Tropiano ICUS Software Systems lenny@icus.ICUS.COM | | {ames,pacbell,decuac,sbcs,hombre,rayssd}!icus!lenny attmail!icus!lenny | +------ ICUS Software Systems -- PO Box 1; Islip Terrace, NY 11752 ------+