[comp.sys.att] vertically-mounted floppies

dwex@cbnewsj.att.com (david.e.wexelblat) (05/26/90)

What is peoples' opinion of vertically-mounted floppy drives these days?
In days of yore, most drives were vertical, but for the last 10 years or so,
all floppies I have seen have been mounted horizontally.

The reason I am asking is that I am planning on adding a 3.5" drive to my
3b1.  Jameco sells a cabinet, with power supply and cabling, for 2 half-height
drives (mounted vertically).  I was thinking about putting the existing
5.25" and the new 3.5" drive in the same cabinet, and mounting the drive-select
switch on the cabinet.

Please email your responses.  If anyone else gives a hoot, I will summarize
to the net.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David Wexelblat             | dwex@mtgzx.att.com    | They recommended
AT&T Bell Laboratories      | ...!att!mtgzx!dwex    |    euthanasia
200 Laurel Ave - 4B-421     |                       | For nonconformists
Middletown, NJ  07748       | (201) 957-5871        |    everywhere

mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) (05/28/90)

In article <1990May25.184349.24830@cbnewsj.att.com> dwex@cbnewsj.att.com (david.e.wexelblat) writes:
>What is peoples' opinion of vertically-mounted floppy drives these days?
>In days of yore, most drives were vertical, but for the last 10 years or so,
>all floppies I have seen have been mounted horizontally.

For those of you that were at the 3b1 BOF at the last usenix, you probably
saw the case I designed for my 3b1.  In my case, I mounted the drives (a 5.25"
and 3.5") vertically in it.  Personally, I think drives are much easier to use 
when mounted vertcially since I don't have to twist my hand as much when 
inserting the disk.  Either that or I'm just used to it from my 'ole CP/M
days when almost all the systems had disks mounted vertically (I skipped the
DOS era so I was never forced to change :-).

>The reason I am asking is that I am planning on adding a 3.5" drive to my
>3b1.  Jameco sells a cabinet, with power supply and cabling, for 2 half-height
>drives (mounted vertically).  I was thinking about putting the existing
>5.25" and the new 3.5" drive in the same cabinet, and mounting the drive-select
>switch on the cabinet.

Sounds like a good idea but what are you going to do with the empty slot where
the 5.25" drive used to be?  You may also want to put the drive select switch 
in the plastic panel of the 5.25" drive, that's what I did.  This way you
can flip it one way for the 5.25" and the other way for the 3.5".
-- 
Managing a software development team 	|   Mark Dapoz  
is a lot like being on the psychiatric	|   mdapoz%hybrid@cs.toronto.edu
ward.  -Mitch Kapor, San Jose Mercury	|   ...uunet!mnetor!hybrid!mdapoz

rhaar@rcsac1.uucp (Bob Haar CS50) (05/29/90)

In article <1990May28.010513.3392@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:

>For those of you that were at the 3b1 BOF at the last usenix, you probably
>saw the case I designed for my 3b1.  In my case, I mounted the drives (a 5.25"
>and 3.5") vertically in it.  

How about posting a description of this new case? I, for one, would be
interested in re-packaging my 7300 and would like to discuss some
of the options.

I am planning to build some custom furniture for my study to include
my UNIX-pc and printer. I would like to get the main body of the
UNIX-pc off the desk top.

Some questions:

1) Can the monitor be removed from the case and run via some extension
cable/ Any noise problems with this? Alternatively, can the video
output be run to a composite video monitor?

2) Does anyone know how to get an extension cable for the keyboard other
than splicing in some wires?

3) are there any problems with moving the floppy drive to a seperate
box?

4) If I do move the floppy drive out, can I put a second hard drive
in its place? (assuming the second drive mod and a 3b1 power supply)

5) Might there be any temperature problems with putting the 7300 into
an enclosed cabinet ?


--
	Bob Haar   CSNET: HAAR@GMR.COM  UUCP: uunet!edsews!rphroy!rcsac1!rhaar
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.

mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) (05/31/90)

In article <23640@rphroy.UUCP> rhaar@rcsac1.UUCP (Bob Haar CS50) writes:
>In article <1990May28.010513.3392@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
>>For those of you that were at the 3b1 BOF at the last usenix, you probably
>>saw the case I designed for my 3b1.  In my case, I mounted the drives (a 5.25"
>>and 3.5") vertically in it.  
>
>How about posting a description of this new case? I, for one, would be
>interested in re-packaging my 7300 and would like to discuss some
>of the options.

Ok, I have the plans in PostScript format so I'll build a shar file and
post them separately.

>I am planning to build some custom furniture for my study to include
>my UNIX-pc and printer. I would like to get the main body of the
>UNIX-pc off the desk top.

So did I, except I only went as far as moving it off to the filing cabinet
beside my desk.  I suppose with long enough cables you could move it to the 
floor.

>1) Can the monitor be removed from the case and run via some extension
>cable/ Any noise problems with this? Alternatively, can the video
>output be run to a composite video monitor?

I took the monitor off the main unit and now have it sitting on my desk.  I
just used the existing cable that was there except I built a little extention
cable to allow me to plug the monitor into the case instead of the motherboard.
The extension cable is only a few centimeters long so it didn't add much to
the total length.  I think the 3B1 video signal has some special timing 
characteristics which makes it incompatible with a composite (or TTL) monitor.
A quick look in the Tech Ref manual should clarify it.

>2) Does anyone know how to get an extension cable for the keyboard other
>than splicing in some wires?

I canibalized an extra keyboard I had in order to get one of the nice locking
connectors that the keyboard uses.  Inside the case I just used standard berg
connectors and some wire to build an extension cable which allowed me to
put the keyboard connector on the left side of the case.

>3) are there any problems with moving the floppy drive to a seperate
>box?

Nope, my other 3B1 is using one right now since the internal one died.

>4) If I do move the floppy drive out, can I put a second hard drive
>in its place? (assuming the second drive mod and a 3b1 power supply)

Yes you can, I did, but be aware that the 3B1 power supply can't really
handle the load which two hard drives put on it.  Take it from experience,
I blew a 3B1 power supply after trying to do just that (it worked for 
about a month though :-).  I now have my two drives being powered by
an additional 300W power supply which is also in the new case.

>5) Might there be any temperature problems with putting the 7300 into
>an enclosed cabinet ?

Heh heh, oh yea :-).  I have two Maxtor XT1140's in the enclosed case and
they seem to be in competition with my furnace :-).  I had to go to a
4.5" 120V boxer fan in order to get enough airflow through the case so
that my drives (and power supplies) didn't burn themselves up.  It's quite
a bit louder now than when I had the small 3" fan in there, but the components 
stay *very* cool.
-- 
Managing a software development team 	|   Mark Dapoz  
is a lot like being on the psychiatric	|   mdapoz%hybrid@cs.toronto.edu
ward.  -Mitch Kapor, San Jose Mercury	|   ...uunet!mnetor!hybrid!mdapoz

mvadh@cbnews.att.com (andrew.d.hay) (06/01/90)

In article <1990May31.035625.18728@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
"In article <23640@rphroy.UUCP> rhaar@rcsac1.UUCP (Bob Haar CS50) writes:
">In article <1990May28.010513.3392@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
">4) If I do move the floppy drive out, can I put a second hard drive
">in its place? (assuming the second drive mod and a 3b1 power supply)
"
"Yes you can, I did, but be aware that the 3B1 power supply can't really
"handle the load which two hard drives put on it.  Take it from experience,
"I blew a 3B1 power supply after trying to do just that (it worked for 
"about a month though :-).  I now have my two drives being powered by
"an additional 300W power supply which is also in the new case.

it depends on just what drives you have in mind...

the computer shopper had a big feature on hard drives a few months ago.
one of the columns in their *very*complete* table of models was power
rating; it showed miniscribe 67Mb drives at 29w, ex-cdc wren-II hh 40Mb
(my present drive) at 18w, and ex-cdc swift (3.5") 88Mb at 9w.  i plan
to install two of these in my 7300, just as soon as i can get up the
money...

i have no quarrel with mark's *real* argument, that you must observe
the power supply's rating, which is 12v@5a for the 3b1 (anyone know
what else draws 12v?).  just be aware that drive power consumption
varies *widely*!

-- 
Andrew Hay		+------------------------------------------------------+
Ragged Individualist	|	 But I thought we were *ALL* iconoclasts!      |
AT&T-BL Ward Hill MA	|		I was just trying to fit in!!!	       |
a.d.hay@att.com		+------------------------------------------------------+

jlw@lzga.ATT.COM (Joe Wood) (06/01/90)

In article <1990May31.035625.18728@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
>In article <23640@rphroy.UUCP> rhaar@rcsac1.UUCP (Bob Haar CS50) writes:
>>In article <1990May28.010513.3392@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
>>>For those of you that were at the 3b1 BOF at the last usenix, you probably
>>>saw the case I designed for my 3b1.  In my case, I mounted the drives (a 5.25"
>>>and 3.5") vertically in it.  
>>
>>How about posting a description of this new case? I, for one, would be
>>interested in re-packaging my 7300 and would like to discuss some
>>of the options.
>
>
>>2) Does anyone know how to get an extension cable for the keyboard other
>>than splicing in some wires?
>
>I canibalized an extra keyboard I had in order to get one of the nice locking
>connectors that the keyboard uses.  Inside the case I just used standard berg
>connectors and some wire to build an extension cable which allowed me to
>put the keyboard connector on the left side of the case.
>

A much more elegant solution would be to order a longer cable from the
manufacturer as I did.

	DuPont Corporation
	Connector Systems
	515 Fishing Creek Road
	New Cumberland, PA  17070


Order the following:

	81610-001  Convergent Assembly but to extend 10 feet
		   color = white

I forgot to specify the color on one order and got black.  My quote
was for $20 each in small (~10) quantities.  No, I don't have any more
left.


Joe Wood
jlw@lzga.ATT.COM

bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (06/03/90)

In article <1990May31.035625.18728@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
|[...]
|Yes you can, I did, but be aware that the 3B1 power supply can't really
|handle the load which two hard drives put on it.  Take it from experience,
|I blew a 3B1 power supply after trying to do just that (it worked for 
|about a month though :-).  I now have my two drives being powered by
|an additional 300W power supply which is also in the new case.

	I think Mark had a spot of bad luck -
	I've been running 2 drives on a 3B1
	power supply for months, without a
	hint of trouble. Thee drives are large
	Maxtors (1105 & 2190). The supply seems
	to run slightly hotter, but the top of
	the 3B1 case doesn't seem too warm...

-- 
  ,u,	 Bruce Becker	Toronto, Ontario
a /i/	 Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu
 `\o\-e	 UUCP: ...!uunet!mnetor!becker!bdb
 _< /_	 "I still have my phil-os-o-phy" - Meredith Monk

mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) (06/04/90)

In article <14063@becker.UUCP> bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes:
>In article <1990May31.035625.18728@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
>|[...]
>	I think Mark had a spot of bad luck -
>	I've been running 2 drives on a 3B1
>	power supply for months, without a
>	hint of trouble. Thee drives are large
>	Maxtors (1105 & 2190). The supply seems
>	to run slightly hotter, but the top of
>	the 3B1 case doesn't seem too warm...

But Bruce, you only have one card installed, a combo card with no memory
on it.  I have a combo card with 1.5 meg, voice card and tape drive.  You'd
be surprised how much of a load those cards can add to the machine, especially
the voice card.  Let's see what happens when you add the 1.5 meg of ram on 
the combo card (you have an extra power supply right :-).
-- 
Managing a software development team 	|   Mark Dapoz  
is a lot like being on the psychiatric	|   mdapoz%hybrid@cs.toronto.edu
ward.  -Mitch Kapor, San Jose Mercury	|   ...uunet!mnetor!hybrid!mdapoz

bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (06/04/90)

In article <1990Jun3.202319.16565@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
|In article <14063@becker.UUCP> bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes:
|>In article <1990May31.035625.18728@hybrid.UUCP> mdapoz@hybrid.UUCP (Mark Dapoz) writes:
|>|[...]
|>	I think Mark had a spot of bad luck -
|>	I've been running 2 drives on a 3B1
|>	power supply for months, without a
|>	hint of trouble. Thee drives are large
|>	Maxtors (1105 & 2190). The supply seems
|>	to run slightly hotter, but the top of
|>	the 3B1 case doesn't seem too warm...
|
|But Bruce, you only have one card installed, a combo card with no memory
|on it.  I have a combo card with 1.5 meg, voice card and tape drive.  You'd
|be surprised how much of a load those cards can add to the machine, especially
|the voice card.  Let's see what happens when you add the 1.5 meg of ram on 
|the combo card (you have an extra power supply right :-).

	Actually the combo card has 0.5 meg on it.

	I suppose the needed extra 1.0 meg of memory
	will stress the supply more, but somehow I
	am not worried (perhaps foolishly?). The 3B1
	supply ought to still be within its published
	ratings...

Cheers,
-- 
  ,u,	 Bruce Becker	Toronto, Ontario
a /i/	 Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu
 `\o\-e	 UUCP: ...!uunet!mnetor!becker!bdb
 _< /_	 "I still have my phil-os-o-phy" - Meredith Monk

yarvin-norman@CS.YALE.EDU (Norman Yarvin) (06/05/90)

In article <1990Jun1.100533.7951@cbnews.att.com> mvadh@cbnews.att.com (andrew.d.hay) writes:

>i have no quarrel with mark's *real* argument, that you must observe
>the power supply's rating, which is 12v@5a for the 3b1 (anyone know
>what else draws 12v?).

The fan uses 12V.  I don't know how much, but I've replaced mine with an AC
fan.  The 3b1's power supply is one of the major points of failure, and it
may pay off to take load off it.  Also, the new fan pumps more air, as well
as being louder.

I'd bet that some of the modem circuitry also uses 12V.

		Norman Yarvin			yarvin-norman@cs.yale.edu

murphyn@motcid.UUCP (Neal P. Murphy) (06/05/90)

mvadh@cbnews.att.com (andrew.d.hay) writes:

: the power supply's rating, which is 12v@5a for the 3b1 (anyone know
: what else draws 12v?).  just be aware that drive power consumption

I believe the monitor uses some 12V, and I *know* that EIA-232 uses
+/- 12V

NPN