mward@blake.u.washington.edu (Mark Ward) (11/17/90)
Okay, here's the silly question of the day: I've seen a 6300, and the box like higher end machine(s) from at&t I've also seen a strange critter running unix that was introduced to me as the at&t unix pc, and also the 7300. Now I hear that the unix pc is also known as the 3b1, which I thought was one of the two box versions. (I thought 3b1 & 3b2). I'm completely messed up. Someone please clear me up on this, and explain the differences(if there are any) between the 7300 and the 3b1, and the 3b2. -mark ps: does anyone have any parts for a counterpoint system 19????
tkacik@rphroy.uucp (Tom Tkacik) (11/17/90)
In article <11246@milton.u.washington.edu>, mward@blake.u.washington.edu (Mark Ward) writes: |> I'm completely messed up. Someone please clear me up on this, and explain |> the differences(if there are any) between the 7300 and the 3b1, and the |> 3b2. The 6300 is AT&T's PC clone. It and newer versions all use the INTEL 8086 family (ie. 8086, 80286, 80386). The original was a DOS machine, the newer ones are able to run Unix. The 7300, UnixPX, and 3b1 are different names for the same machine. The 7300 was sold with less memory and a smaller disk. They all use the Motorola 68010 processor, and run Unix SYS5.2, (ok a slight variant). The 3b1 (7300) was discontinued before there a second machine was introduced. It is now an orphan, but one with a captive following. I have one, it's a great machine. The unix-pc.* newgroups are devoted to the 3b1. The 3b2 is an AT&T exclusive. The different members of the 3b2 line use AT&T's own WE32000 family of processors, the WE32000, WE32100, and WE32200. They run SYS5.3 or SYS5.4. All three are completely different machines. They are not compatible with each other in any way. -- Tom Tkacik ...uunet!edsews!rphroy!tkacik GM Research Labs tkacik@kyzyl.mi.org "I'm president of the United States, and I'm not going to eat anymore broccoli." --- George Bush
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (11/17/90)
tkacik@rphroy.uucp (Tom Tkacik) in <38178@rphroy.UUCP> writes:
The 6300 is AT&T's PC clone. It and newer versions all use
the INTEL 8086 family (ie. 8086, 80286, 80386).
The original was a DOS machine, the newer ones are able to run Unix.
It's my recollection AT&T's 6300 pre-dated the IBM machines; i.e. the IBM PC
arrived on the scene AFTER the 6300. The 6300 was mfd by Olivetti under their
own name, then AT&T picked it up as the 6300.
The 7300, UnixPX, and 3b1 are different names for the same machine.
The 7300 was sold with less memory and a smaller disk.
They all use the Motorola 68010 processor,
and run Unix SYS5.2, (ok a slight variant).
The 3b1 (7300) was discontinued before there a second machine was
introduced.
It is now an orphan, but one with a captive following.
I have one, it's a great machine.
The unix-pc.* newgroups are devoted to the 3b1.
^^^^^^^
Devoted? Sheesh, we WORSHIP the machine! Aye, yes, Stellar Acolyte Thad
swinging dead chickens over his head and dancing under the full moon in
his Jockey shorts while deciphering the mystical CURSES runes, stictioned
rotating memories, the glorious wonders of /etc/lddrv and the intricacies
of HDB uucp! :-) :-)
And "UnixPX"? Gee, you must have been in the US Army! :-) Adding to Tom's
comments, the UNIXPC was manufactured by Convergent Technologies for AT&T,
and shares its basic design with CT's S4 and MiniFrame line; another variant
is the Motorola 6300 (6350 if two HDs). These systems are all (essentially)
software compatible. Convergent is now a part of UNISYS.
AT&T ads in places like Electronic Design, the IEEE mags, etc. referred to
the same system by three different names: PC7300, 3B1, and UNIXPC. I found
some of those old ads as I started cleaning out my garage recently. The
May 1986 issue of BYTE magazine had a 10-12 page "System Review" of the UNIXPC
in which it compared quite favorably to a VAX 11/780 per the test results;
though the tests were biased: VAX with 4MB RAM and two mongo disks, and the
UNIXPC with just 1MB RAM and a dinky 65mS 10 MB clunker HD; when you equip the
UNIXPC with 4MB RAM and "reasonable" HDs it screams even faster than a Mac II
per my own tests.
And, note, AT&T's latest 7300 line of computers is NOT the same as the UNIXPC;
I believe the "new" 7300 line comprises what could be termed large-minis or
small-mainframes (from descriptions I've heard and snippets of info in AT&T's
UNIX Training bulletins).
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]ehopper@ehpcb.WLK.COM (Ed Hopper) (11/18/90)
mward@blake.u.washington.edu (Mark Ward) writes: > Okay, here's the silly question of the day: > > I've seen a 6300, and the box like higher end machine(s) from at&t > I've also seen a strange critter running unix that was introduced to me > as the at&t unix pc, and also the 7300. Now I hear that the unix pc is > also known as the 3b1, which I thought was one of the two box versions. > (I thought 3b1 & 3b2). > > I'm completely messed up. Someone please clear me up on this, and explain > the differences(if there are any) between the 7300 and the 3b1, and the > 3b2. Here's the whole product line, with a few comments: 7300 - Motorola based UNIX PC oem'ed from Convergent Technologies. Discontinued some time ago and considered a failure by AT&T. Large and loyal cult following. UNIX PC - Same as 7300. (Note: Labelling on machines was actually changed mid-way through product life). 3B1 (3b1)- An upgraded version of the 7300/UNIX PC. Spotted by the "bubble" over the disk drive bay. Had 40 or 68 MB HDU and more ram. Intended to be a small multi-user platform, hence the "3b" name to move it out of the PC genre. 6300 - Original 8086 Olivetti Manufactured MS DOS PC. 6300 Plus - 80286 UNIX/DOS Olivetti built box. Non-AT architecture and memory map. Cult following. First simultaneous UNIX/DOS implementation. 6310 - 8MHZ 80286 AT Clone. AT&T Video (640X400). Olivetti 6312 - 12 Mhz 80286 AT Clone. Removable Video (Use your own card). Olivetti 6286WGS - 12 Mhz 80286 Olivetti. Small footprint. CPU on a card. (WGS=Work Group System) 6386WGS - 80386 Olivetti. 16 & 20 Mhz models. BIG BIG footprint. 6300 WGS - Updated 6300. 1.44 drives, VGA, 10Mhz 8086, 101 Key Keyboard, etc. ------- All of the above are discontinued --------------------------------- Current PC Product: 6386/SX - Intel Mfgr. 80386 SX clone. (being phased out now) 6386SX/EL - AT&T Manufactured. Diskless version available. Unix Available. 6286/EL - AT&T Manufactured. Diskless version available. 80286. 6386/25 - 25Mhz 80386. SCSI version available. Intel Manufactured. 6386/33 - 33Mhz 80386 Tower. UNIX or DOS (or OS/2 for the blue). Intel Mfgr. 6386/33S - SCSI, UNIX only version of the above. Intel/AT&T Mfgr. StarServer S - 33Mhz 80486 Tower. DOS/UNIX. Screamer. AT&T Mfgr (?) StarServer E - 1-4 33Mhz 80486 Tower. Huge Box. UNIX or Novell Server. AT&T Built Mini Computer Products: 3B2/300/310/400 - WE 32x00. Introductory small AT&T Mini. Rarely sold anymore but still orderable (I think). 3B2/500 - Faster, newer bus design. 18Mhz. 3B2/522 - 22Mhz version of 3B2/500. 3B2/600 - Discontinued. 18Mhz 3B2/700 - Discontinued. 22Mhz 3B2/1000 Model 60. Current Product. 22Mhz. 3B2/1000 Model 70. Same as 60, bigger RAM and Disk. 3B2/1000 Model 80. 24 Mhz. 3B5 - Old small Big format mini. Had 9 track tape, 8" SMD drives, etc. 3B15 - Upgraded WE 32100 version of 3B5. 3B20 - Few commercial sites. Primarily AT&T and RBOC internal use. Older technology. Was being built and used by AT&T prior to divstiture. 3B4000 - Multi-CPU version of 3B15. Had 3B2/600's as communication front ends. High speed bus to connect all CPUs. First commercial "BIG" machine. StarServer FT - Built by Tandem. Fault Tolerant UNIX. Yank a CPU, a drive and a memory card and it keeps going and going and going.... System 7000 - AT&T Version of Pyramid MIS Server. 3 Models, up to 12 CPUs. Biggest, hottest offering by AT&T. AT&T & Pyramid are co-developing enhancements to this machine. 1000 users. So that's the product line. DISCLAIMER: I have been peddling these things for several years. Ed Hopper AT&T Computer Systems Ed Hopper's BBS 713-997-7575 - Houston - Free Access to AT&T Employees USENET - ILink - Smartnet PC Board - Markmail Offline Reader System "I've fallen and I can't get up!"
jbreeden@netcom.UUCP (John Breeden) (11/18/90)
In article <36024@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >tkacik@rphroy.uucp (Tom Tkacik) in <38178@rphroy.UUCP> writes: > > The 6300 is AT&T's PC clone. It and newer versions all use > the INTEL 8086 family (ie. 8086, 80286, 80386). > The original was a DOS machine, the newer ones are able to run Unix. > >It's my recollection AT&T's 6300 pre-dated the IBM machines; i.e. the IBM PC >arrived on the scene AFTER the 6300. The 6300 was mfd by Olivetti under their >own name, then AT&T picked it up as the 6300. > It pre-dated the IBM AT (the 6300 compares to and is faster than an AT - it also explains the lack of EGA for the 6300 - it wasn't defined until the AT). > The 7300, UnixPX, and 3b1 are different names for the same machine. > The 7300 was sold with less memory and a smaller disk. > They all use the Motorola 68010 processor, > and run Unix SYS5.2, (ok a slight variant). > The 3b1 (7300) was discontinued before there a second machine was > introduced. > It is now an orphan, but one with a captive following. > I have one, it's a great machine. > The unix-pc.* newgroups are devoted to the 3b1. > ^^^^^^^ >Devoted? Sheesh, we WORSHIP the machine! Aye, yes, Stellar Acolyte Thad >swinging dead chickens over his head and dancing under the full moon in >his Jockey shorts while deciphering the mystical CURSES runes, stictioned >rotating memories, the glorious wonders of /etc/lddrv and the intricacies >of HDB uucp! :-) :-) > Let's see. AT&T came out with a 68000/Unix based machine with a graphic interface based on Open Standards (AT&T's ad) and the world concidered it a flop........hhhuuummmmm Didn't SOMEONE else come out with such a machine the same year that AT&T disco'd the 7300/3b1/UnixPC? Arn't they selling a few billion dollars worth of them a year now? -- John Robert Breeden, netcom!jbreeden@apple.com, apple!netcom!jbreeden, ATTMAIL:!jbreeden ------------------------------------------------------------------- "The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from. If you don't like any of them, you just wait for next year's model."
friedl@mtndew.Tustin.CA.US (Stephen Friedl) (11/19/90)
Mark Ward asks about the various AT&T machines out there, and Ed Hopper responds with a long list, the only bugs of which are that a few machines need to be added to the "discontinued" category. > 3B2/300/310/400 - WE 32x00. Introductory small AT&T Mini. > Rarely sold anymore but still orderable (I think). The 3B2/300 is absolutely discontinued, and I am virtually certain that the rest are not orderable anymore either. I'll check out my reseller manual when I get into work this morning. The used market has these machines for the $1-4k range > 3B5 - Old small Big format mini. Had 9 track tape, 8" SMD drives, etc. > 3B15 - Upgraded WE 32100 version of 3B5. > 3B20 - Few commercial sites. Primarily AT&T and RBOC internal use. Older > technology. Was being built and used by AT&T prior to divstiture. > 3B4000 - Multi-CPU version of 3B15. Had 3B2/600's as communication front > ends. High speed bus to connect all CPUs. First commercial "BIG" > machine. All of these are discontinued (well, I guess I've not *personally* seen the termination papers on the 4000, but since it is literally built on top of a 3B15 I assume must be). The 3B5 and -15 were discontinued in the summer of 1989, and it is only because we have an outstanding local AT&T data shop (Larry Duffy!) that our machine has had such an excellent service record. These big machines never really made it too well outside of AT&T and the Bell Operating Companies, and it is clear to me that the 80x86 on the low end and Pyramid on the high end will be the future (such as that is) with AT&T. Notice that "3B2" is conspicuously absent from mention. Note: "discontinued" means "can't order it anymore". > DISCLAIMER: I have been peddling these things for several years. So have I :-) Steve -- Stephen J. Friedl, KA8CMY / 3B2-kind-of-guy / Tustin, CA / 3B2-kind-of-guy +1 714 544 6561 / friedl@mtndew.Tustin.CA.US / {uunet,attmail}!mtndew!friedl "Gcc compiles an interesting language which is not ANSI C." - Henry Spencer
craig@attcan.UUCP (Craig Campbell) (11/20/90)
In article <36024@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >And, note, AT&T's latest 7300 line of computers is NOT the same as the UNIXPC; >I believe the "new" 7300 line comprises what could be termed large-minis or >small-mainframes (from descriptions I've heard and snippets of info in AT&T's >UNIX Training bulletins). >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] Quick clarification: I beleive that you are refering to AT&T's 7000 product line which includes 7020, 7040, and 7080 machine codes. As far as I know, there is not another 7300 machine. (But then, they don't tell me everything... :-)) craig P.S. While I work for AT&T, the above is not intended as nor should it be misconstrued as any sort of statment from AT&T.
rdc30med@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (LCDR Michael E. Dobson) (11/20/90)
In article <wwgss3w163w@ehpcb.WLK.COM> ehopper@ehpcb.WLK.COM (Ed Hopper) writes: [much of product descriptions deleted] > >3B2/600 - Discontinued. 18Mhz 3B2/600G - 18Mhz/22Mhz/24Mhz CPUs. Current product, gov't buyers off Air Force SMSCRC contract. Available for at least the next two years. {AT&Ts got to do something with the stuff in the warehouse :-)} >3B2/700 - Discontinued. 22Mhz > [remainder of product line deleted] -- Mike Dobson, Sys Admin for | Internet: rdc30med@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil | UUCP: ...uunet!mimsy!nmrdc1!rdc30med AT&T 3B2/600G Sys V R 3.2.2 | BITNET: dobson@usuhsb or nrd0mxd@vmnmdsc WIN/TCP for 3B2 | MCI-Mail: 377-2719 or 0003772719@mcimail.com
ehopper@ehpcb.WLK.COM (Ed Hopper) (11/20/90)
rdc30med@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (LCDR Michael E. Dobson) writes: > In article <wwgss3w163w@ehpcb.WLK.COM> ehopper@ehpcb.WLK.COM (Ed Hopper) writ > [much of product descriptions deleted] > > > >3B2/600 - Discontinued. 18Mhz > 3B2/600G - 18Mhz/22Mhz/24Mhz CPUs. Current product, gov't buyers off Air For > SMSCRC contract. Available for at least the next two years. > {AT&Ts got to do something with the stuff in the warehouse :-)} > >3B2/700 - Discontinued. 22Mhz > > To the best of my knowledge (and it isn't perfect since we - AT&T Computer Systems Marketing - don't sell the machine, Federal Systems does) the 3B2/600G is basically the same as the 3B2/1000 (Models 60, 70 and 80). The AFCAC 251 contract was awarded prior to the introduction of the 3B2/1000 line. In fact, the 3B2/1000 was described at the time as a commercial version of the 600G. Ed Hopper ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Ed Hopper's BBS 713-997-7575 - Houston - Free Access to AT&T Employees | | USENET - ILink - Smartnet PC Board - Markmail Offline Reader System | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mark@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mark Horton) (11/21/90)
In article <13059@vpk1.UUCP>, craig@attcan.UUCP (Craig Campbell) writes: > >And, note, AT&T's latest 7300 line of computers is NOT the same as the UNIXPC; > Quick clarification: I beleive that you are refering to AT&T's 7000 product > line which includes 7020, 7040, and 7080 machine codes. As far as I know, > there is not another 7300 machine. (But then, they don't tell me everything... Also note that it's different from the 730, which is a bitmapped terminal derived from the blit, 5620, and 630 DMD series, and the 730X X terminal. Mark
jbm@uncle.uucp (John B. Milton) (11/23/90)
In article <13059@vpk1.UUCP> craig@vpk1.ATT.COM (Craig Campbell) writes: >In article <36024@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: ... >>Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] >Quick clarification: I beleive that you are refering to AT&T's 7000 product >line which includes 7020, 7040, and 7080 machine codes. As far as I know, >there is not another 7300 machine. (But then, they don't tell me everything... >:-)) There is a new Amdahl line intended for UNIX with the number 7300... John -- John Bly Milton IV, jbm@uncle.UUCP, n8emr!uncle!jbm@osu-cis.cis.ohio-state.edu (614) h:252-8544, w:469-1990; N8KSN, AMPR: 44.70.0.52; Don't FLAME, inform!