kirkaas@makaha.cs.ucla.edu (paul kirkaas) (11/03/90)
In article <1990Nov1.080516.14051@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> unix-pc-request@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG writes:
-According to the monthly information postings from Gene Spafford, there is
-a Unix-PC network available at many sites:
-
-<Unix-PC
-
-<Another such hierarchy is the "unix-pc" distribution. This consists of
-<groups devoted to users of the AT&T Unix-PC. These groups were
-<originated as a mailing list started by three owners of AT&T Unix PCs:
-<Gary Smith, David Dalton and Kathy Vincent. As the list expanded, it
-<turned into a newsgroup hierarchy, and more and more sites began to
-<carry the groups; hundreds of sites now carry these groups. To receive
-<them, you need to contact a site already getting them; att, gatech,
-<mit-eddie, psuvax1, ucsd and ukma are well-known sites getting these
-<groups and the admins there may be willing to help find a feed should
-<you desire (and ask nicely); uunet also carries these groups. The
-<unix-pc groups circulated include:
-
-<unix-pc.bugs Bug reports, fixes & workarounds.
-<unix-pc.general General information and discussion.
-<unix-pc.sources Source code to various programs.
-<unix-pc.uucp Configuration and management of uucp on Unix-PCs.
-<unix-pc.test Test group.
-
-If your site cannot get the unix-pc.* groups via regular news, contact the
-address below to be added to the mailing list.
-
-<unix-pc-net
-< Contact: {ames,pyramid,vsi1}!zorch!unix-pc-request (Scott H. Mueller)
-< unix-pc-request@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG
-
-< Purpose: To provide redistribution via mail of the unix-pc news
-< hierarchy to sites that don't or cannot receive it as a regular
-< distribution. The special address "zorch!unix-pc" can be used by
-< subscribers to post to the group unix-pc.general.
Well, this is a nice idea, but the only group I am really exited about here
is unix-pc.sources --- and that's the group I was told was too big
to forward via email. UCLA is a pretty big school and we get all the
newsgroups I've ever heard of; but the local net administration looked
into the unix-pc newsgroups and said it was pretty tough for them
to get a feed here.
If my understanding is correct, the feed would be essentially automatic
if the unix-pc newsgroup were under another pre-existing hierarchy.
Why not just move the whole unix-pc tree under comp.sys.unix-pc, which
is clearly where it belonged in the first place? I don't know much about
how the net works, but it seems to me that is obvious and correct solution.
This would also allow us to separate out discussions of 3b1's and 3b2's
and 6386's, which have nothing really to do with each other.
Comments?
--
--
Paul Kirkaas
kirkaas@cs.ucla.eduthad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (11/03/90)
kirkaas@makaha.cs.ucla.edu (paul kirkaas) in <1990Nov3.045636.12735@cs.ucla.edu
>
writes (re: the 3B1 mailing list(s)):
Well, this is a nice idea, but the only group I am really exited about
here is unix-pc.sources --- and that's the group I was told was too
big to forward via email. UCLA is a pretty big school and we get all
the newsgroups I've ever heard of; but the local net administration
looked into the unix-pc newsgroups and said it was pretty tough for
them to get a feed here.
If my understanding is correct, the feed would be essentially
automatic if the unix-pc newsgroup were under another pre-existing
hierarchy.
Why not just move the whole unix-pc tree under comp.sys.unix-pc, which
is clearly where it belonged in the first place? I don't know much
about how the net works, but it seems to me that is obvious and
correct solution. This would also allow us to separate out
discussions of 3b1's and 3b2's and 6386's, which have nothing really
to do with each other.
Comments?
Personally, I'd like to see "comp.sys.unix-pc.*" in the mainstream newsgroups!
But, as has been posted and (re-)hashed many times, there is NO problem getting
a direct feed (of the unix-pc.* hierarchy) right into your own 3B1 (assuming
you don't mind a (possibly) long-distance phone call).
As far as UCLA administration asserting unix-pc.* is too big to forward via
e-mail, bushwa! How do you think much of the stuff is presently propagated?
Surely not by carrier pigeon! :-)
It's my observation and assertion the comp.sys.att and unix-pc.* newsgroups
are frequented by responsible persons and there simply aren't any blatant
cross-posting abuses.
Re: "... allow us to separate out discussions of 3b1's and 3b2's and 6386's,
which have nothing really to do with each other" I disagree. Except for some
specific hardware and/or assembly language issues, all these systems running
UNIX share many of the same problems and solutions, and it's definitely a
win-win situation sharing our experiences and discussions.
As the (present) president of the Silicon Valley AT&T UNIX Users' Group, it's
clear from the membership info surveys that interest in all these systems is
shared by the members though, for practical (and financial) reasons most of
us own 3B1 systems as personal home systems. As but one example in support of
this assertion, our October 1990 meeting featured demos and talks by:
Tyan Computer of Sunnyvale CA, showing their 80486 system with SVR4
and X11R4. Tyan also supplied the door prizes that evening, with a
COMPLETE set of SVR4 manuals and documentation going to one lucky
attendee, and
UNISYS/NCG (formerly Convergent Technologies (also the mfr for AT&T
of the 3B1)) of San Jose CA showing their 68040 SVR3.2 with X11R4.
Software running on the 3B1 (68010), for example, can be simply
copied to that Model 4040 using tape or Ethernet and continue to
run (that Model 4040 is expected to officially debut on or about
Nov.21 per my notes from that meeting).
Many members of the users' group own 3B2 and 6386 systems, and we often "borrow
"
them for our booths at the West Coast Computer Faire, DB-EXPO, etc.
As we move more into SVR4, I believe it's even more important to maintain the
cohesiveness of the present newsgroups and to NOT split them. Again, many of
the issues discussed (printers, uucp, C, etc.) are common to all our systems.
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) (11/04/90)
In article <35534@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >kirkaas@makaha.cs.ucla.edu (paul kirkaas) in <1990Nov3.045636.12735@cs.ucla.edu > > unix-pc.sources --- and that's the group I was told was too > > big to forward via email. >As far as UCLA administration asserting unix-pc.* is too big to forward via >e-mail, bushwa! How do you think much of the stuff is presently propagated? Virtually all of the traffic is propagated via NetNews -- compressed batches over uucp or nntp over the Internet. Perhaps being a Portal user rather than running a Usenet site you're not familiar with the difference between that and e-mail, Thad? > > UCLA is a pretty big school and we get all the newsgroups I've ever > > heard of; but the local net administration looked into the unix-pc > > newsgroups and said it was pretty tough for them to get a feed here. >there is NO problem getting a direct feed (of the unix-pc.* hierarchy) >right into your own 3B1 (assuming you don't mind a (possibly) long- >distance phone call). On this count I'll wholeheartedly agree with Thad, with the addition that big sites (UCLA, for example) on the Internet can easily get the hierarchy via nntp from a number of sites. Any administrator of an Internet site who claims it would be "pretty touch for them to get a feed" of unix-pc is either unbelievably ignorant or unbelievably lazy. Or maybe both. Anybody who wants a unix-pc feed is welcome to a feed from either of my machines -- ditka (San Jose, California) or royko (northwest Chicago suburbs, Illinios). Both are PC Pursuitable; ditka has a TrailBlazer Plus though royko is only 2400. I'm also willing to help folks wanting an nntp feed of unix-pc, either showing them which of their feeds already carry it, or if necessary I can help them arrange a feed through Stanford University. -- Karl Swartz |UUCP {uunet,decwrl}!daver!ditka!kls 1-408/223-1308 |INet kls@ditka.chicago.com "I never let my schooling get in |BIX kswartz the way of my education."(Twain) |Snail 1738 Deer Creek Ct., San Jose CA 95148
crtb@helix.nih.gov (Chuck Bacon) (11/06/90)
Amen to that! For my first year in 3b1-land, I had to glean what I could from comp.sys.att, since unix-pc wasn't a "recognized" newsgroup. I vote for comp.sys.unix-pc, or perhaps comp.sys.3b1 (shorter). -- Chuck Bacon - crtb@helix.nih.gov - 301-496-4823 "After all, computers have rights too!" - Ernst Bacon, 1898-1990
jim@syteke.be (Jim Sanchez) (11/06/90)
I would LOVE for that to happen too since I suspect that net interest
in 3b1 stuff is way out of proportion to our numbers. I'll bet that a
very high percentage of 3b1s have net access. Lets get a recognized
newsgroup so we here in Europe can have the sources too!
--
Jim Sanchez | jim@syteke.be (PREFERRED)
Hughes LAN Systems | OR uunet!mcsun!ub4b!syteke!jim
Brussels Belgium | OR {sun,hplabs}!sytek!syteke!jim
--
Jim Sanchez | jim@syteke.be (PREFERRED)
Hughes LAN Systems | OR uunet!mcsun!ub4b!syteke!jim
Brussels Belgium | OR {sun,hplabs}!sytek!syteke!jimthad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (11/06/90)
kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) in <30978@ditka.UUCP> writes in response to one of my blatherings, er ..., postings: >As far as UCLA administration asserting unix-pc.* is too big to >forward via e-mail, bushwa! How do you think much of the stuff >is presently propagated? Virtually all of the traffic is propagated via NetNews -- compressed batches over uucp or nntp over the Internet. Perhaps being a Portal user rather than running a Usenet site you're not familiar with the difference between that and e-mail, Thad? Yep, sorta. I know the conceptual difference but have no first-hand experiences with operating an actual Usenet site since I never had enough free disk space to consider that as an option; I'm always operating around 1-5% free no matter how many HDs I add to the systems. This will change shortly as I'll be putting "thadlabs" on the "net" for email only after I complete yet-another-hardware-mod. Though PORTAL is fine for news (they get everything, and access is only $10/month any baud, any time, any duration, and they have multi-GB HDs online) the email storage charges on PORTAL are/were nickling-and-diming me to death due to my having 1746 messages more-or-less unanswered (THIS "problem" is presently being rectified; the problem was that there was no way to know which messages were unread, and, with getting anywhere from 50-100 emails a day, I had to "guess" at which was the last one read; this is my only real complaint regarding PORTAL's service). Karl continues: I'm also willing to help folks wanting an nntp feed of unix-pc, either showing them which of their feeds already carry it, or if necessary I can help them arrange a feed through Stanford University. Now THAT is interesting! The question about "feeds" continuously comes up during the local user group meetings, and my "pat" answer was to contract with PORTAL, btr.com, or netcom (or netsys (sorry, keep confusing these two)) for a full or partial feed along with email. Karl, I'd be happy to assist this effort; let's continue this in email and I'll summarize after the details are worked out. Thad Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) (11/06/90)
In article <35534@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > kirkaas@makaha.cs.ucla.edu (paul kirkaas) in <1990Nov3.045636.12735@cs.ucla.edu > > > UNISYS/NCG (formerly Convergent Technologies (also the mfr for AT&T > of the 3B1)) of San Jose CA showing their 68040 SVR3.2 with X11R4. > Software running on the 3B1 (68010), for example, can be simply > copied to that Model 4040 using tape or Ethernet and continue to > run (that Model 4040 is expected to officially debut on or about > Nov.21 per my notes from that meeting). > this sounds bizzare, does it have a 68000 family co-processor? does it know about 3b1 pecularities? binarys, or do you need to re-compile sources? Kris A. Kugel ( 908 | 201 ) 842-2707 { uunet | rutgers }!{ tsdiag | westmark }!hico2!kak att!westmark!hico2!kak {daver,ditka,zorch}!hico2!kak
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (11/07/90)
kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) in <305@hico2.UUCP> asks: In article <35534@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > kirkaas@makaha.cs.ucla.edu (paul kirkaas) in <1990Nov3.045636.12735@cs.ucla. edu > > > UNISYS/NCG (formerly Convergent Technologies (also the mfr for AT&T > of the 3B1)) of San Jose CA showing their 68040 SVR3.2 with X11R4. > Software running on the 3B1 (68010), for example, can be simply > copied to that Model 4040 using tape or Ethernet and continue to > run (that Model 4040 is expected to officially debut on or about > Nov.21 per my notes from that meeting). > this sounds bizzare, does it have a 68000 family co-processor? does it know about 3b1 pecularities? binarys, or do you need to re-compile sources? The 68040 in the 4040 is a 68000-family CPU (the family comprises the 68000, 68008, 68010, 68012, 68020, 68030 and 68040). CT (now UNISYS) produces systems based on 68010 and 68020, and, soon, the 68040 (seems the performance of their 68020 systems never required a 68030 version). Simply move the binary EMACS, ksh, etc. from the 3B1 to that and they continue to run. Did this first for the CT MightyFrame and was I surprised; the MightyFrame is a 68020-based system. (FYI, can do the same even on an Amiga which supports all of 68000, 68010, 68020, 68030 and 68040). As long as you move UP to a "higher" CPU. The family of computers from CT (now UNISYS/NCG) are "compatible." You might want to keep that in mind if you're thinking about upgrading from a 3B1 and don't want to re-buy (or recompile) all your programs. Re-compiling would, of course, take advantge of compiler optimizations for the newer chip(s). Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) (11/07/90)
In article <35660@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) in <30978@ditka.UUCP> writes in response to one >of my blatherings, er ..., postings: > I'm also willing to help folks wanting an nntp feed of unix-pc, either > showing them which of their feeds already carry it, or if necessary I > can help them arrange a feed through Stanford University. Note that Stanford is an nntp feed. This is for Internet sites; uucp-only sites need not apply. But read on ... >Now THAT is interesting! The question about "feeds" continuously comes up >during the local user group meetings, and my "pat" answer was to contract >with PORTAL, btr.com, or netcom (or netsys (sorry, keep confusing these two)) Must be netcom since the Feds still had netsys at last note. :-( >for a full or partial feed along with email. Karl, I'd be happy to assist >this effort; let's continue this in email and I'll summarize after the details >are worked out. Not many details to work out -- anybody willing to call San Jose is welcome to a mail and/or news feed (unix-pc up to a full feed) from ditka; anybody willing to call Cary, Illinois is welcome to whatever is available on royko. If it's a local call, I'll call them too. I have posted this offer before, as have Lenny and others -- there are lots of feeds of the unix-pc groups around for the asking. It's that simple. I can also help find feeds in many other areas if necessary -- both in the Bay Area and elsewhere. I exchange unix-pc with numerous sites, ranging from local Silicon Valley sites to well-known sites in Chicago, Atlanta, Portland, and others, to obscure places like Flagstaff, Arizona. I'm sure most of them would be willing to share the wealth, as would many, many sites that I don't talk to. Anyway, the only other details are the ones in my signature. -- Karl Swartz |UUCP {uunet,decwrl}!daver!ditka!kls 1-408/223-1308 |INet kls@ditka.chicago.com "I never let my schooling get in |BIX kswartz the way of my education."(Twain) |Snail 1738 Deer Creek Ct., San Jose CA 95148
dold@mitisft.Convergent.COM (Clarence Dold) (11/07/90)
in article <305@hico2.UUCP>, kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) says: > > UNISYS/NCG (formerly Convergent Technologies (also the mfr for AT&T > > of the 3B1)) of San Jose CA showing their 68040 SVR3.2 with X11R4. > > Software running on the 3B1 (68010), for example, can be simply > > copied to that Model 4040 using tape or Ethernet and continue to > > run (that Model 4040 is expected to officially debut on or about > > Nov.21 per my notes from that meeting). > this sounds bizzare, does it have a 68000 family co-processor? > does it know about 3b1 pecularities? binarys, or do you need > to re-compile sources? The 68040 is a superset of the 68010, so no co-processor is necessary. It does not know about windows, and the shared library usage has changed. Rumor has it that you can bring 3B1 shared libraries over and then the executables will run but I haven't tried that. Non-shared library / non-graphic binaries will run. Re-compilation should work for almost anything you've written, again with the caveat about graphics. The kernel is vastly different, and of course no code from the 68040 will be executable on the 3B1, but the upgrade path to the 68040 should be easy. No sales pitch, just a Tech Support Guy. -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@tsmiti.Convergent.COM ...pyramid!ctnews!tsmiti!dold
kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) (11/09/90)
In article <31147@ditka.UUCP>, kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) writes: > > If it's a local call, I'll call them too. I > have posted this offer before, as have Lenny and others -- there are > lots of feeds of the unix-pc groups around for the asking. It's that > simple. hico2 carries unix-pc groups in central NJ, I'll provides feeds to anybody that polls me, or two way to local sites. These groups are also available at other sites around here. Kris A. Kugel ( 908 | 201 ) 842-2707 { uunet | rutgers }!{ tsdiag | westmark }!hico2!kak att!westmark!hico2!kak {daver,ditka,zorch}!hico2!kak
gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.) (11/11/90)
In article <319@hico2.UUCP> kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) writes: >hico2 carries unix-pc groups in central NJ, I'll provides feeds >to anybody that polls me, or two way to local sites. >These groups are also available at other sites around here. I will also provide a feed of the unix-pc.* groups (as well as a few others) on the same policy for the Houston, TX area. -- Gil Kloepfer, Jr. gil@limbic.ssdl.com ...!ames!limbic!gil Southwest Systems Development Labs (Div of ICUS) Houston, Texas
elliot@alfred.UUCP (Elliot Dierksen) (11/11/90)
In article <319@hico2.UUCP>, kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) writes: |In article <31147@ditka.UUCP>, kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) writes: |> |> If it's a local call, I'll call them too. I |> have posted this offer before, as have Lenny and others -- there are |> lots of feeds of the unix-pc groups around for the asking. It's that |> simple. | |hico2 carries unix-pc groups in central NJ, I'll provides feeds |to anybody that polls me, or two way to local sites. |These groups are also available at other sites around here. I am willing to offer the same deal from alfred which is located in Orlando, Florida (Tourist Hell). Check my .sig if you need to reach me. -- Elliot Dierksen "Religion & Sex are Powerplays. Manipulate the people for Money they pay. Selling Skin, Selling God. The Numbers look the same on their Credit Cards" -- Queensryche W) ebd@ralph.fang.att.com 407-660-3377 H) elliot@alfred.UUCP 407-290-9744
lenny@icus.ICUS.COM (Lenny Tropiano) (11/20/90)
In article <732@limbic.ssdl.com> gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.) writes: |>In article <319@hico2.UUCP> kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) writes: |>>hico2 carries unix-pc groups in central NJ, I'll provides feeds |>>to anybody that polls me, or two way to local sites. |>>These groups are also available at other sites around here. |> |>I will also provide a feed of the unix-pc.* groups (as well as a few |>others) on the same policy for the Houston, TX area. Ditto, here in Austin, TX. I guess we have TX pretty well covered. I'm sure there is someone in Dallas too :-) -L. -- | Lenny Tropiano ICUS Software Systems lenny@icus.ICUS.COM | | ...!{ames,cs.utexas.edu,pacbell}!icus!lenny attmail!icus!lenny | +---------------- 14300 Tandem Blvd #222, Austin, TX 78728 -----------------+
unix-pc@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Forwarder of Unix-PC) (01/01/91)
According to the monthly information postings from Gene Spafford, there is
a Unix-PC network available at many sites:
<Unix-PC
<Another such hierarchy is the "unix-pc" distribution. This consists of
<groups devoted to users of the AT&T Unix-PC. These groups were
<originated as a mailing list started by three owners of AT&T Unix PCs:
<Gary Smith, David Dalton and Kathy Vincent. As the list expanded, it
<turned into a newsgroup hierarchy, and more and more sites began to
<carry the groups; hundreds of sites now carry these groups. To receive
<them, you need to contact a site already getting them; att, gatech,
<mit-eddie, psuvax1, ucsd and ukma are well-known sites getting these
<groups and the admins there may be willing to help find a feed should
<you desire (and ask nicely); uunet also carries these groups. The
<unix-pc groups circulated include:
<unix-pc.bugs Bug reports, fixes & workarounds.
<unix-pc.general General information and discussion.
<unix-pc.sources Source code to various programs.
<unix-pc.uucp Configuration and management of uucp on Unix-PCs.
<unix-pc.test Test group.
If your site cannot get the unix-pc.* groups via regular news, contact the
address below to be added to the mailing list.
<unix-pc-net
< Contact: {ames,pyramid,vsi1}!zorch!unix-pc-request (Scott H. Mueller)
< unix-pc-request@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG
< Purpose: To provide redistribution via mail of the unix-pc news
< hierarchy to sites that don't or cannot receive it as a regular
< distribution. The special address "zorch!unix-pc" can be used by
< subscribers to post to the group unix-pc.general.