wtm@uhura.neoucom.EDU (Bill Mayhew) (01/21/91)
Actually, the 3B1 may be dead in body but it is not dead in spirit. From my understanding the Commodore-Amiga 3000/UX is a descendant of the 3B1. I've been told that the Amiga Unix was proted from the 3B1's "Unix version 3.51". Curious is that according to press releases, the Amiga 3000 comes with Sys Vr4. Also on the 3000, you get X and Openlook. The 3000 has a 25 MHz 68030 and can be popualted with up to 17 meg of RAM. C-A has educational pricing programs that make the 3000 system cost approximately somewhere between $2500 and $3000 (US $). This is a lot of computing bang for the buck, and is potentially faster and definitely cheaper than similar offerings from Apple. This isn't as cheap as the "fire sale" close-out prices on the 3b1, but it's getting close. I paid about $2100 for my 2x67 3B1 and $400 for Unix+devtools in October 1987. AT the time, I thought I was getting a nearly unbelievalbe deal. The C-A 3000 is a lot of machine, and costs less than 1/2 the original price of the 7300 Safari with its measly 512K and 10meg hard disk. One thing that I can say for the 3B1 is that it is pretty rugged. I had a few minor problems with a bad solder joint in the keyboard, a 68010 that literally jumped out of the socket and a motherboard replacement under warranty, that actually turned out to be a bug in uucico, but overall uptime is well over 99%. Total shutdown in 3 years and 3 months has been about 14 hours, and most of that time was when the machine was in transit to the AT&T depot for replacement of the motherboard. Only our HP 9000/835 at work has done better, with zero downtime in its first 12 months of operation. Hadly in the same league, dollarwise, though. The upshot is that there are some very affordable unix configurations out there. The C-A 3000 bears looking at. Also the Apple Macintosh SI, once the A/UX 2.1 release supporting the LC becomes available, is a possiblity. ==Bill== -- Bill Mayhew NEOUCOM Computer Services Department Rootstown, OH 44272-9995 USA phone: 216-325-2511 wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu ....!uunet!aablue!neoucom!wtm via internet: (140.220.001.001)
n177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) (01/21/91)
The Amiga 3000UX is supposed to list for about $4995. This will include between 4 and 8 MB of RAM (forgot exactly), 100 MB hard disk, monitor, and SVR4. I can't imagine educational pricing being below $3600 for this machine (probably closer to $4000...they *do* have to make a profit, remember...and that AT&T license wasn't cheap). In any event, $3600 still doesn't touch the $900 I paid for my 2x40 3B1 with development kit last May. Granted, this machine isn't going to suck the markings off the 3000's chips, but it's quick enough. And for 25% of the price (and that's for EVERYONE...not just students and faculty), it's not a bad deal. The smaller scale of the UNIX on this machine also makes it attractive...I don't NEED 100 MB of disk to have a useable machine. I'd bet that 100 MB for the 3000UX will prove to be pretty minimal...you'll probably want more. Just trying to keep things in perspective. $5k is cheap, but it'st still a lot more than what I gave for this box. --Daryl Biberdorf, n177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu "3B1 owner, Amiga user, allergy sufferer"
bill@platypus.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) (01/21/91)
In article <11375@helios.TAMU.EDU>, n177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes: > The Amiga 3000UX is supposed to list for about $4995. This will ....... > Just trying to keep things in perspective. $5k is cheap, but it'st still > a lot more than what I gave for this box. > One other small problem. For $5K you can buy a SparcStation 1 Clone with SunOS. Maybe AMIGA true believers are different, but I know which one I would prefer. -- Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, bill@platypus.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (01/22/91)
n177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) in <11375@helios.TAMU.EDU> writes:
The Amiga 3000UX is supposed to list for about $4995. This will
include between 4 and 8 MB of RAM (forgot exactly), 100 MB hard disk,
monitor, and SVR4. I can't imagine educational pricing being below
$3600 for this machine ...
In any event, $3600 still doesn't touch the $900 I paid for my
2x40 3B1 with development kit last May. Granted, this machine isn't
going to suck the markings off the 3000's chips, but it's quick
[...]
Didn't see the original message for which Daryl's posting is a reply, but I
don't recall anyone "blasting" the 3B1 anywhere recently. I, too, have both
types of systems (Amiga and 3B1), and because OF the price point, here are
some salient features of the A3000:
Motorola 68030 at 25MHz, 32-bit data bus, 68881 or 68882, mouse, keyboard,
on-board SCSI, etc.
UNIX SVR4 plus X-Windows and Open Look. All man pages and documentation from
AT&T
four Zorro III (A3000) expansion slots, 2 PC AT expansion slots, 1 video
expansion slot, 1 CPU (68040) and CACHE expansion slot. Note on this: the
A3000, like the 3B1, has a DOS coprocessor card accessory. On the A3000 one
can also plug in other coprocessor cards (i.e. IBM/370, C/PM, whatever; and
DON'T look incredulous about "IBM/370" ... that was a special card set mfd
by IBM using two custom-masked MC68000 chips which totally emulates the 370).
Stock configs of the A3000:
3000UX-100, 5MB RAM, 100MB HD
3000UX-200, 9MB RAM, 200MB HD
both units expandable to 18MB RAM on motherboard, more on expansion cards.
Pricing hasn't been publicly announced, but something around $5,000-$6,000
seems to be what's on everyone's lips. Details at Uniforum this week.
Graphics resolutions up to 1024x800 with A2410 card. 4-channel stereo sound
stock. Built-on speech with variable rate,pitch,volume,inflection,gender.
Accessories include Ethernet, multiport RS232, 286AT card, tapes, etc.
With SVR4, the A3000 makes a nice adjunct to the 3B1. I like both systems,
and a number of members of the local AT&T UNIX Users' Group have both also.
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (01/24/91)
It is not true that the Unix C= is (or will soon be) selling is derived from the Unix-PC version of Unix. But this rumor does have a small basis in fact .. Namely that Mark Ditto (the guy doing/developing "Amix") happens to be a classy guy who likes "adb". Now, AT&T is a less classy organization and (for some weirdo reason) threw away adb in favor of "sdb". Probably has a lot to do with the quiche-eaters they have working at Summit (now USL) who don't hack Assembly language anymore. So he somehow arranged for C= to get a source liscense for the Unix-PC OS so that he could have an "adb" which understood the motorola 68k assembly language. (This was back when Unix-PC source liscenses were hard to come by). I don't think he brought over any other things ... er.. take that with a brooooad grin & a block of salt. *please*! :-) The part which I know for *SURE* is that they got a copy of Unix-PC/Unix so that Mark could have "adb". He said as much at the Unix PC BOF at Usenix a couplea years ago. The only real "phoenix story" for 3B1's is that you can still run 3B1 binaries on current Convergent Technology machines ... > The upshot is that there are some very affordable unix > configurations out there. The C-A 3000 bears looking at. Also the > Apple Macintosh SI, once the A/UX 2.1 release supporting the LC > becomes available, is a possiblity. Almost agreed. A/UX v2.1 is still a hacked up SysVr2.x isn't it? Do you have any idea how ***OLD*** r2.x is? Have fun, David -- <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- MS-DOS ... The ultimate computer virus.
aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic) (01/25/91)
In article <236@platypus.uofs.edu> bill@platypus.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article <11375@helios.TAMU.EDU>, n177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes: >> The Amiga 3000UX is supposed to list for about $4995. This will >....... >> Just trying to keep things in perspective. $5k is cheap, but it'st still >> a lot more than what I gave for this box. > >One other small problem. For $5K you can buy a SparcStation 1 Clone >with SunOS. Delete "clone" from the above sentence to retain any truth at all... >Maybe AMIGA true believers are different, but I know which one I would >prefer. Oh, right. $5000. Sure, if you can run with no hard disk... The prices for the workstations themselves are highly misleading. Want a 200 MB external SCSI disk? $1700, please. A simple DIN-8 to DB25 cable? (required, to make use of either serial port on an IPC) That's $40. Plus tax. > Bill Gunshannon -- Alan Denney # aland@informix.com # {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland Overheard somewhere in a bunker in Baghdad: - "Saddam, Sir, another bombing raid has hit the city!" - "Hmph. Now we *really* know what that infidel Bush meant when he talked about the 'Thousand Points of Light'!!!"
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (01/27/91)
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) in <8604@gollum.twg.com> writes:
Namely that Mark Ditto (the guy doing/developing "Amix") ...
Actually his name is Mike Ditto. :-)
Almost agreed. A/UX v2.1 is still a hacked up SysVr2.x isn't it?
Do you have any idea how ***OLD*** r2.x is?
As much am I'm cringing admitting this in public, I'm (among other things) an
"official" Apple Partner Developer (to the tune of $600+/year). As such, I
have several A/UX boxes and, as many have read in comp.unix.aux and other
places, I've been blasting A/UX at every opportunity and for GOOD reason. It
was (and still is) my contention that A/UX is simply a marketing ploy by Apple
to insinuate Macs into the government sector to satisfy certain purchasing
requirements (e.g. multi-tasking). Supporting my contention, please note that
several members of the A/UX Development Team have recently responded to me in
public (comp.unix.aux) and in email with:
"If you didn't want the MacOS, why'd you get A/UX?"
Sheesh, I only wanted to run UNIX on some of the hardware I had at my office.
The A/UX is based on SVR2 (circa 1983) and BSD4.2 (circa 1983), and it shows
in MANY ways (esp. if you remember my postings late last year regarding the
manifold deficiences of A/UX compared to even the 3B1's system, esp. in areas
like terminal support, curses, compatibilty with SysV, etc.). Some tests I've
run at my office show a well-configured 3B1 outperforming my A/UX boxes (but,
the 3B1s I have also outperform my VAX 11/780 systems in some aspects, too)).
The option to use the BSD FFS (Fast File System) is nice with A/UX, but far too
many areas of A/UX 2.* are still ancient and simply not worth the cost of the
system from Apple given there are so many better, more-modern and less costly
systems available from other vendors.
Apple's features of A/UX 2.01 are support for the IIci (BFD; if they designed
their hardware and software correctly there'd be NO compatibilty problems), and
the inclusion of ksh 1988e (whoopee, I can do the same for the 3B1 if I choose
to pay $3,000 for source and $10,000 for binary distribution rights to AT&T's
ToolChest).
For a multi-billion dollar per year company like Apple attempting to pull the
wool over everyone's eyes in 1991 with a "new, improved" product that's really
over 8 years old is the epitome of audacity and arrogance.
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]