rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (05/17/84)
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the lovemaking scene on the > "elevated" in "Risky Business" accompanied by Phil Collins' "Hold On", > and not Tangerine Dream? It was Phil Collins' "In the Air Tonight", but there were also portions of the scene with Tangerine Dream music, if I recall. > ... (too bad John Williams, Jerry Gold- > smith or Michael Kamen didn't get to score it). John Williams, perhaps the greatest thief in the history of music. What's worse, with his highly derivative Star Wars score, he started an horrific trend towards making ALL adventure movie scores sound like ripoffs of a combination between Holst's "Mars" and Stravinsky's "Sacre du Printemps". Rick Wakeman is an amateur next to Williams. (Didn't Williams also write the theme music from Lost in Space?). Goldsmith is not much better. Where is Bernard Herrmann when you need him??? -- "You are not SAM. You are not ISAM!!!" Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
dp@astrovax.UUCP (Deborah L. Padgett) (05/19/84)
Rosen:
John Williams is no thief!!! Making a statement such as that shows
your ignorance of his work. He is one of a very few film composers who
can increase the cohesiveness and appeal of a movie simply by writing its
score. You may have noticed that at least 7 of the top 10 movie-making
films were scored by him (ET, STAR WARS, EMPIRE, JAWS, CE3K, RAIDERS,
JEDI, and RAIDERS). His music is completely different from score to score
and is only predictable in its high quality. I suspect that the real
reason that you hate John Williams is that his style is similar to that
of Wagner and R. Strauss, 19th century composers that you maintain an
elitist distain of (yes, I read your immature statements concerning
net.classical). Your assertion about Williams is only your opinion,
and unless you can prove your statements, I will stick to my own view of
Williams, which , I believe, is based on a much greater familiarity
with both his works and those of similar classical composers than your
snide remarks. Williams' music is far more original than that of the
jaded rock groups thatyou mention; of composers using "modern" instruments
only Vangelis seems to approach Williams' talent in integrating the
visual and musical aspects of a film. The idea that Williams "steals"
parts of Holst's "Mars" and Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" is utterly
laughable; a comparison with the instrumental opera scores of the Romantic
period or the tone poems of R. Strauss would be much more logical.
Unfortunately, that might imply that you have an open enough mind about
19th century music to have actually listened to it (Tsk, tsk).
If you would like to pick on a film composer who steals music, try
James Horner; he has used the same bar of music in his soundtracks to
BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS, STAR TREK II, KRULL, and TESTEMENT.
My point to all this is: maybe you think that all 19th century music
is bad (Williams successfully writes Romantic-style music; ergo he is
an evil to be eliminated), but many other people do not agree with you.
This doesn't mean that one of us is stupid, just that we have different
tastes. Please do not resort to fabrications of the sort that you
presented as fact in your article; just honestly state your opinion
and offer concrete evidence for any "fact" that you introduce.
Some of us out here like film scores as a legitimate form of music;
don't be elitist and condemn us for being different.
Sincerely,
Deborah L. Padgett
Princeton Astrophysicsrlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (05/21/84)
> Rosen: > John Williams is no thief!!! Making a statement such as that shows > your ignorance of his work. He is one of a very few film composers who > can increase the cohesiveness and appeal of a movie simply by writing its > score. You may have noticed that at least 7 of the top 10 movie-making > films were scored by him (ET, STAR WARS, EMPIRE, JAWS, CE3K, RAIDERS, > JEDI, and RAIDERS). His music is completely different from score to score > and is only predictable in its high quality. No one said you can't get high quality by stealing. Jaws was one of his really original ideas, and for the simple two-note punch it wields, I give him credit. But ever since George Lucas requested a sweeping majestic score for Star Wars, Williams has consistently re-used the same style over and over, often seemingly just rearranging the notes like a series of musical anagrams (witness SW, Raiders, Superman, ET). > I suspect that the real > reason that you hate John Williams is that his style is similar to that > of Wagner and R. Strauss, 19th century composers that you maintain an > elitist distain of (yes, I read your immature statements concerning > net.classical). [I GUESS HAVING DIFFERENT TASTES FROM YOU IS IMMATURE] > Your assertion about Williams is only your opinion, > and unless you can prove your statements, I will stick to my own view of > Williams, which , I believe, is based on a much greater familiarity > with both his works and those of similar classical composers than your > snide remarks. Whew! On the contrary, Williams style is not at all similar to Wagner and Strauss (well, there is some similarity). But even a glance at the Star Wars score is enough to see where he did steal from. The opening theme has much of its central section (in orchestration and rhythm) lifted from Holst's "Mars" (I've heard others mention pointers to "Jupiter", but I didn't catch them). The scene with C3P0 and R2D2 in the desert has its music lifted almost directly (!!!!) from Le Sacre du Printemps. Though I'm not familiar with Vaughan Williams as much as I'd like, Close Encounters contains much that was lifted from Vaughan Williams (was it Antarctica?) according to musical analysts. I no longer have the source article from which I obtained much of this info, but most of it can be uncovered just by listening. That answers the informational sections of Deborah's article. I'll take the other portions, where she make swipes at my musical background and at "jaded rock groups", offline. By the way, I couldn't agree with you more about James Horner. There's nothing worse than someone who steals from a thief. (Well, there are a few things.) -- "You are not SAM. You are not ISAM!!!" Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
asente@decwrl.UUCP (Paul Asente) (05/26/84)
As a friend of mine said upon seeing the notice in the credits for Superman II that the music was by <someone> based upon original themes by John Williams: "Nonsense! John Williams never wrote an original theme in his life!" -paul asente decwrl!asente, asente@decwrl.arpa "It is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them."