wesm@MITRE-BEDFORD.ARPA (Wes Miller) (01/23/87)
I just recently had a problem with my IIe that I can't figure out, maybe someone out there can. Last night, as I was using the system, the keyboard started working improperly. Instead of typing the normal charaters, it would type a space or a random charater (either upper or lower case). This happened for any and every character I typed. I was in 40 column mode at the time. I then shut off the system and rebooted with the old standard System Master disk. Same result. I tried this several times. I tried the system self diagnostics...all ok. I then checked all the cards, proms, etc. for proper seating, loose connections, etc....reboot....same thing. (The disks were booting properly so I knew it was not a disk or drive problem.) I then booted a program that used the 80 column card instead of 40 colomn mode. Everything worked fine. I rebooted again with the Master. Everything worked fine, so the 80 column card obviously cleared up the problem. Anyone out there have any idea what's going on? Was this a fluke, or should I bring in my system for a checkup? Thanks in advance. Wes Miller (wesm@mitre-bedford.arpa)
binder@fizbin.DEC.COM ("When you do something well, repeat it often.") (01/23/87)
Wes Miller (wesm@mitre-bedford.arpa) asks: > I just recently had a problem with my IIe that I can't figure out, > maybe someone out there can. Last night, as I was using the system, the > keyboard started working improperly. Instead of typing the normal charaters, > it would type a space or a random charater (either upper or lower case)... > ...[Booted with 80 cols]...Everything worked fine. I rebooted again with the > Master. Everything worked fine, so the 80 column card obviously cleared up > the problem. > > Anyone out there have any idea what's going on? Was this a fluke, or > should I bring in my system for a checkup? Thanks in advance. Wes, I don't think the 80-column card fixed anything - using slightly different software cannot repair broken hardware. Your problem just went away for a while. The real trouble sounds like a dirty keyboard or an oxidized connector. My old ][+ had that problem; it was usually in very humid weather that it would appear. It'd work fine until it got warm enough, and then zowie! Power down, reboot, any number of things might or might not make it work right for a while. After I'd clean it, it would take about a year to get dirty enough to go nuts again. Every time I ever opened the machine I would reseat all the cable and cardslot connectors as a precaution. Open your //e up and look inside. If there's more than a speck or three of dust in there, try cleaning things. Carefully, with a soft brush - if you have a can of compressed air for your camera or stereo, use that, too. Don't use any liquids. The whole machine comes apart when you unscrew the right screws - you really need to get in at the top surface of the keyboard. Reseat all the connectors - loosen them slightly, wiggle them gently and then push them back into position. Don't *force* anything - if it doesn't go, you're doing it wrong. Then give it a try. If you aren't confident of your own ability to clean the computer properly, take it in for service. Good luck. Cheers, Dick Binder (The Stainless Steel Rat) DEC Enet: ASD::BINDER UUCP: { decvax, allegra, ucbvax... }!decwrl!asd.dec.com!binder ARPA: binder%asd.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
ilacqua@bucsb.bu.edu.UUCP (01/27/87)
In article <8701231438.AA15408@mitre-bedford.ARPA> wesm@MITRE-BEDFORD.ARPA (Wes Miller) writes: > > I just recently had a problem with my IIe that I can't figure out, >maybe someone out there can. Last night, as I was using the system, the >keyboard started working improperly. Instead of typing the normal charaters, >it would type a space or a random charater (either upper or lower case). This >happened for any and every character I typed. I was in 40 column mode at the >time. I then shut off the system and rebooted with the old standard System >Master disk. Same result. I tried this several times. I tried the system >self diagnostics...all ok. I then checked all the cards, proms, etc. for >proper seating, loose connections, etc....reboot....same thing. (The disks >were booting properly so I knew it was not a disk or drive problem.) I had the same problem on my //c, it would come and go (and always go when I tried to show the repair man ;-) In the end I couldn't find the problem they couldn't find the problem and I had to pay $140 for a new mother board. I've seen to other problems in //c's, you'll love these... How about a //c that won't boot with something plugged in port two, if you take it out it boots, put it back in and all is fine... Or mine which every once and a while goes mad, when turned on it won't start the drive and starts spitting garbage out on the text screen, plus it ignors ctrl-reset and open-apple-ctrl-reset. What fun, what fun... -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "Summer blonds, revealing tan lines, I'll make more moves than | | Allied van lines" | |UUCP: ...!harvard!bu-cs!bucsb!ilacqua | |ARPANET: ilacqua@bucsb.bu.edu | |CSNET: ilacqua%bucsb@bu-cs BITNET: engemnc@bostonu | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
cetron@utah-cs.UUCP (01/28/87)
In article <703@bucsb.bu.edu.UUCP> ilacqua@bucsb.bu.edu.UUCP (Joseph Ilacqua) writes: ->In article <8701231438.AA15408@mitre-bedford.ARPA> wesm@MITRE-BEDFORD.ARPA (Wes Miller) writes: ->> ->> I just recently had a problem with my IIe that I can't figure out, ->>maybe someone out there can. Last night, as I was using the system, the ->>keyboard started working improperly. Instead of typing the normal charaters, ->>it would type a space or a random charater (either upper or lower case). This ->>happened for any and every character I typed. I was in 40 column mode at the -> -> I had the same problem on my //c, it would come and go (and ->always go when I tried to show the repair man ;-) In the end I couldn't find ->the problem they couldn't find the problem and I had to pay $140 for a -->new mother board. -> hmm, i had this problem with my ][+ back in the dark ages, seems that the power supply had gone marginal, and sometimes had enough juice to run the keyboard, and sometimes not.....and when you tried the disk drive :-) -ed
kamath@reed.UUCP (01/31/87)
In article <703@bucsb.bu.edu.UUCP> ilacqua@bucsb.bu.edu.UUCP (Joseph Ilacqua) writes: >In article <8701231438.AA15408@mitre-bedford.ARPA> wesm@MITRE-BEDFORD.ARPA (Wes Miller) writes: >> [ Misc //e problems] > > I had the same problem on my //c, it would come and go (and >always go when I tried to show the repair man ;-) In the end I couldn't find >the problem they couldn't find the problem and I had to pay $140 for a >new mother board. > > I've seen to other problems in //c's, you'll love these... > > How about a //c that won't boot with something plugged in port >two, if you take it out it boots, put it back in and all is fine... > > Or mine which every once and a while goes mad, when turned on >it won't start the drive and starts spitting garbage out on the text >screen, plus it ignors ctrl-reset and open-apple-ctrl-reset. What >fun, what fun... > The problem could indeed be the power supply. There is a standing warning to dealers about a series of bad power supplies for the //c that can cause serious (and I mean SERIOUS) motherboard problems. I can't find the serial numbers right now, but if any one in interested, I can dig them up and post them again. Also, the //e problems could very well be power or heat generated. I got '?' all over my screen before I got a system saver. Now I only get them when it's been left on four a good long time. I have it jam packed. I gotta take out the integer card, though I sorta like. Absolute reset, but I just burned some new proms! Faster hires routines as well! Sean Kamath kamath@reed.UUCP {your favourite backbone}!tektronix!reed!kamath
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (02/02/87)
I've experienced all sorts of weird problems with Apple II series comnputers. At last count, the labs I take care of had somewhere between 15 and 20 II II+ IIe and //e computers of various rev levels and motherboards. I've learned a few things that are power problem related: 1. Memrory extenders that attach to the motherboard via umbilical cord to steal the refresh signal are real power hogs. Those old 4116s really guzzle power. These boards are often enough to push a system with a marginal power supply over the edge. 2. The integer basic firmware card, or rather in a few of our cases the applesoft firmware card with its power-hungry ROMs can push a system over the edge too. A few of our firmware cards are so old that they have (non erasable) PROMs on them rather than mask programmed 2316s. 3. Occasionally, the little decoupling capacitors between +5 and ground (and other voltages too) short out. This doesn't happen very often, but it can be a real annoyance to find one when it does! You need a milliohm meter to track down the short. 4. I always wondered why the heck Apple didn't get Astec to drill some holes in the aluminum case of the power pack. A little air circulation in there sure would help things out. It's not like a few small holes would encourage us to electrocute ourselves or pour liquid in. Without air circulation in the power supply, the benefit of a "system-saver" type fan doesn't achieve full benefit. 5. I suspect that Apple didn't used to pre-burn the ICs they used or the computers either. I've had three II+ plus computers blow a 74LS... IC within a few hours of being turned on for the first time. I have to admit that the level of quality control on E series has been much better. 6. On II+ plus computers that are operated 8 hours a day for 5 days a week, we've been averaging about 1-1/2 years on the lifetime of the power pack. 7. You can tell when a power pack is about ready to poop out, as it will occasionally emit high pitched chirps at random intervals. This is probably related to overloading of the switching regulator caused by partial failure of the output filter capacitor. Often the failure mode of the supply is that the filter cap shorts out due to elevated temp in the case, which thenm overloads the switching transistor and blows it out. In general, this means that if your power supply quits, you might as well toss it out, as there are likely multiple things wrong with it. 7a. There is often a conspicuous delay at power-on without even the lamp on the keyboard coming on; sometimes the supply will suddenly turn on as much as ten minutes later. Again, here the output filter capacitor is suspect. 8. I've been replacing the power packs in our apples with one that Jameco sells. So far they seem pretty reliable, and we haven't suffered any failures in the replacement packs, even on systems without add-on fans. The replacement power packs also have nice big vent slots to encourage air circulation and keep heating down. I have to be fair to Apple. With their more recent products, the hardware has been much better put together and seems to be more reliable overall. Now, my main disagreement with apple is that the user should treat the system as a black box. I'm glad that I got a chance to get to know apple in the old days when the machines came with honestly informative manuals. My favorite example is the manual that is packed with the sytem; the prodos filer manual that spends about 120 pages dwelling on the filer in excruciating detail, yet never even bothers to mention what the commands that can be typed directly into prodos are. Apple has gotten a little better with the user manuals on the latter versions of the //e in that at least there is cursory coverage of the fundamental prodos commands. Bill Mayhew Division of BAsic Medical Sciences Northeastern Ohio Universities' College of Medicine Rootstown, OH 44272 USA phone: 216-325-2511 (wmt@neoucom.UUCP ...!cbatt!neoucom!wtm)
ranger@ecsvax.UUCP (02/03/87)
Sounds like you need a more robust power supply, even with the system saver. My //e would do the same sort of thing after about 8 hours, even with even with a fan. I got the Applied Engineering power supply, its vented has more has more power and runs cool. I dont have any problems now. Rick Fincher ranger@ecsvax