gwn@ihlpa.UUCP (03/23/87)
I own an Apple II+ computer. Unfortunately it seems that this has is obsolete. I have an opportunity to upgrade (trade) to the IIe. I am wondering how current the IIe will be or if it too will become obsolete when the IIgs is introduced. If you have any comments on the IIe track history and its plans for the future, I would appreciate them very much. Please send me your comments. If there is ineterest I will post my findings. Gary W. Novak AT&T Bell Labs Naperville, Il 60566 ihnp4!ihlpa!gwn
jshaver@APG-5.ARPA.UUCP (03/24/87)
Our community has an Apple IIe in every classroom in our school system. The high school is considering going to an IBM or Clone version for their business courses. There is an awful lot of Apple II plain software out there and it still does the functions for which it was originally written. The IIe has 128 K which permits it to do a bit more with larger programs that the II+. If you don't need a bus, get something smaller. I find the IIe entirely adequate for my home needs. I see small business men who do their accounting on a II+. The question is does a larger machine, ie an IBM clone cost that much more, and do you need that extra for your effort. John
halp@TCGOULD.TN.CORNELL.EDU.UUCP (03/26/87)
Just now would seem to be an odd time to switch from Apple to IBM for business
purposes. It's probably true that the use of Apple ][s in business is limited,
although I have seen ][c used as a cash-register controller, and quite good accounting and word processing software are available for ][e or ][c with
sufficient memory.
However, business is now said to be moving heavily into Macs, especially Mac+ and the new Mac SE. With the Apple Educational Discount program, and mass
purchases, Mac+ or SE would probably undersell IBM clones, and very likely the
real thing itself. Jumping to IBM now might be insuring the the business class '
is fully equipped to move into the past.
p.s. It's not a question of memory. ][e and ][c can now easily have 1 meg of RAM, plus large hard disks and 3.5" drives. Mac+ goes up to several meg of RAM,
while Mac II (surely beyond your needs) can do 4 gigabytes.
Bruce P. Halpern
***** Not an Apple employee or stockholder, nor, to be best of my knowledge***
***** related to one. ***ranger@ecsvax.UUCP (03/26/87)
The //e is not obsolete and is still in production, BUT, the current price is $829 and the //gs is only $999. Under those conditions you'd be crazy to by a //e because the //gs is a far superior machine. The big problem is that you must have a 3.5 inch drive to run the //gs system software and only a 5.25 for the //e, which is much cheaper. If you have tried to use the new //e software on a 5.25 inch 140K drive though, a 3.5 800K will quickly become the first item on your shopping list. If you can't afford a 3.5 get a //gs anyway. It works fine in the //e mode but is 2.5 times faster and //e graphics look better on a //gs than they do on the //e anyway. This way you'll only pay $170 more for these extra features and you will be able to run //gs stuff as soon as you can afford the 3.5 inch drive. If you get a //e you will not only have to get the drive but fork over an extra $500 for the upgrade and you still won't have a detached keyboard. All this doesn't even consider all of the other //gs goodies, ie built-in serial ports and RGB and disk controller. I don't think Apple will continue selling the //e for much longer unless they drop the price to $400 or less (which they might do, the new //e is very inexpensive to build). Rick Fincher ranger@ecsvax
ugbinns@sunybcs.UUCP (03/26/87)
Article 717 of comp.sys.apple: > Just now would seem to be an odd time to switch from Apple to IBM for business > ... > Jumping to IBM now might be insuring that the business class ' > is fully equipped to move into the past. Maybe even more so for the Apple ?? (staying in the past). > p.s. It's not a question of memory. ][e and ][c can now easily have > 1 meg of RAM, plus large hard disks and 3.5" drives. Mac+ goes up to > several meg of RAM, while Mac II (surely beyond your need) can do 4 gigabytes But it's not only a question of *memory*, what about *speed* ?? I can't speak for the Mac (I'm not too familiar with it), but an IBM AT or even an IBM XT can run circles around the apple IIc, IIe & II+. With an IBM you're dealing with a much faster clock speed, and a true 16-bit processor. And I've *heard* that you can get a 3rd party 40M hard drive for about $600! An Apple 10 or 20M hard drive costs more than that last time I checked !! Anybody know how the IIgs compares in speed (sorry if it's an old topic) ? Sorry if I took you *too* much out of context Bruce @:-) Len Binns ugbinns@sunybcs acscljb@ubvms
Mark_E._Simmons.osbunorth@XEROX.COM.UUCP (03/26/87)
Point of clarification on the following message sent by Bruce Halpern. "However, business is now said to be moving heavily into Macs, especially Mac+ and the new Mac SE." The Macintosh has made most of its inroads into the business community via desktop pubishing applications. The new Mac SE may?? make some inroads into some engineering applications. The IBM family of PCs and clones continues to be King of the mainstream business community. In fact, several computer industry forecasters (like Infocorp and The Gartner Group) are predicting IBMXT and AT class equipment will take away most of Apple's market share of the desktop publishing market in about 3 years time. Another important consideration in the Macintosh's favor is the user interface. This is definitely a trend for future systems. (Note MicroSoft's Windows and Digital Research's GEM.) There is certainly something to be said for the educational value of learning to use a computer on tomorrow's user interface. Anyone who has looked at the software available 3-4 years ago compared to today understands the diminished value of learning the detailed operation any specific program, and learning the programming languages themselves is best left up to the programmers, not your typical business user. My basic tenet for computer education is: Its not so important which machine, or which application you learn on as it is to learn what they can do for you and gain a basic understanding of how to use a computer. Either the Apple II+, Apple IIE, Mac, or IBMPC (and clones) are appropriate for education. What counts is the curriculum (including appropriate software to support it, which all these systems generally have). --Mark
halp@batcomputer.UUCP (03/31/87)
Summary:Mac II =15.7 megHz; Apple= Apple Computer, Inc. Sender:halp@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu Followup-To:<2723@sunybcs.UUCP> ugbinns@sunybcs.UUCP(Leonard Binns) In article <2723@sunybcs.UUCP> ugbinns@sunybcs.UUCP (Leonard Binns) writes: >Article 717 of comp.sys.apple: >But it's not only a question of *memory*, what about *speed* ?? >I can't speak for the Mac (I'm not too familiar with it), but an IBM AT >or even an IBM XT can run circles around the apple IIc, IIe & II+. >With an IBM you're dealing with a much faster clock speed, and a >true 16-bit processor. > I wouldn't (and therefore attempted to not) suggest that a public school business class stay with Apple ][s, even ][gs. My suggestion was a Mac. The Mac II runs at 15.7 megaHertz, if speed is the question (or the answer). With Apple Educational Discounts, even a Mac II (32 bits, no less) would be competitive with an IBM, but I would think overkill for the school business class. However, a few years ago, IBM believed no one could possibly want more than 640K. Thus, my idea of too powerful my really be too blind. The Mac SE runs at 7.8 MHz, can have up to 4 MB RAM (comes with 1 MB), has one expansion slot (looks basically like a Mac on the outside), and would probably be <2K$ each (not bought in quantity) for an educational institution, with two 800K drives and a fancy keyboard. > >Anybody know how the IIgs compares in speed (sorry if it's an old topic) ? A hardware review by Garry B. Little in the November 1986 A+ states that the][gs has a 65816 with a 2.5 MHz clock. I assume this must be slower than it **really** could run, since a ][e with a AE Transwarp card (and therefore 65C02) runs at 3.5 MHz.> > Bruce P. Halpern halp@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu