EWING@YALEVM.BITNET (Rick Ewing) (07/29/87)
Regarding the presumed "demise" of the Apple ][ series and lack of interest
from Apple Co.: (part rebuttle, part *flame*)
I don't know just *where* that you may be getting your information from,
but I can say that the death of the Apple ][ is completely and absolutely
**false**. The Apple ][ series has had a wonderful new commitment in interest
and product research in the last two years, and any rumors to the contrary
would be absolutely ridiculous. We have, unfortunetely been suffering from
the neglect that was incurred from the Jobs administration a few years back.
Since that is no longer an issue, and we now have a new machine to develop
software for, more interesting and wonderful software is due to come down the
pipeline. Remember the first year of the Mac? There were only about 10 or so
programs even out there worth having, few desk accessories, *no* meaningful
utilities, and the same doubts on its future that we seem to be having on the
Apple ][ world now. GIVE IT TIME!!! You will be justly rewarded for your
patience. The IIgs right nowis going through the same growing pains of timprop
(proper, sorry) tools to fully exploit its features. One of the biggest assets
in the Macintosh programming world was the invention of the MPW programming
system, but the development of this system has (and still isis) taking time to
flower into what it can be. The same is true for APW. We still have a long
way to go with this system, but we'll get there.
**Flame ON** About the neglect of Apple to supply representatives here
on this forum: Well, this is one Apple rep has been here since September of
last year. I agree that more should be here, but its completely untrue that
Apple isn't listening. I include all major problems that I find in my reports
and try to track down answers for them if a can, especially in recent issues
such as ProDOS 00 trashing, the VGC bug, Finder development and the like. I
wish I could tell you more about what I know coming down the pipeline, but
you'll find out soon enough. Probably Apple's biggest sign of renewed Apple
][ commitment is the upcoming Appleworld conference in San Francisco in
September, ouir first such conference in years for the Apple ][ series. If
the Apple ][ is dead, then I haven't seen it from the people I've talked to.
And a final point. For all of you interested in the bottom line, Apple
couldn't have achieved thos great financial statements in the past year
without the Apple. If Apple abandonned the Apple ][ tomorrow, then they
would be a seriously crippled company. Remember that Sculley is a financial
man. He knowsas well as I that he couldn't survive without the Apple ][. I
still remember the night on Compuserve when the IIgs was rolled out in
conference. The special surprise guest was indeed that same CEO who was just
as excited as we were.
**Flame OFF**
Richard Ewing
Trinity College Apple Computer Consultant
EWING@YALEVM.bitnetlc@pbhyd.UUCP (Larry Colton) (07/31/87)
In article <8707291034.aa25905@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA> EWING@YALEVM.BITNET (Rick Ewing) writes: >Regarding the presumed "demise" of the Apple ][ series and lack of interest >from Apple Co.: (part rebuttle, part *flame*) > [...] > **Flame ON** About the neglect of Apple to supply representatives here >on this forum: Well, this is one Apple rep has been here since September of >last year. [...] >Richard Ewing >Trinity College Apple Computer Consultant >EWING@YALEVM.bitnet I feel your flame is unjustified Mr. Ewing. Your signature says you are an 'Apple Computer Consultant'. Your words say you are an 'Apple rep'. I do not not know what either position is; that is my fault not yours. However, in prior posts, I have never seen you say that you were speaking for Apple Computer. (Indeed, you did not in your current posting.) There is nothing in your address to indicate that you are from Apple. Yes, Apple Computer is on the various nets: I have seen posts to NON COMPUTER forums that were originated from Apple Computer. Yet Apple remains silent on this net feed. I understand that no one should waste time responding to much of the bitching that occurs in an open forum like this one. There have been some legitimate questions and concerns that have been raised here and elsewhere that have gone unanswered by Apple. Your letter mentions the ProDOS trashing problem. This has been well documented and patches are available. BUT NOT FROM APPLE. The offending code was located by someone in Australia. The information was disseminated by Open-Apple. Other questions have been raised about the bugs in the gs firmware, the noise in the gs sound circuitry, the need for a fan, the noise it generates, the implication of the lack of a fan on the warrenty, etc. Most of these were raised in a reasonable, civilized manner after the normal calls to dealers and Apple produced no answers. Most of them are still unanswered. Apple has selectively participated in electroninc exchange of information. They have, in the past, been active in both Compuserve and Bix. I think the frustration that is being felt is exacerbated by Apple's heritage. The user that helped make Apple, the hobbiest, the home user, the garage developer, feels abandoned. No, Mr. Ewing, I must repeat, your flame is without merit. It is not my intention to start a war on this network. Rather, I am trying to explain why so many feel that "Apple is not listening". Are they? --- Larry Colton {ihnp4,pyramid,qantel}!ptsfa!pbhyd!lc Pacific * Bell San Diego
ranger@ecsvax.UUCP (Rick N. Fincher) (07/31/87)
Larry Rosenstein from Apple has posted here several times. He has also sent me mail about some things. He is far more active in the Mac section, true, but is available for questions, nonetheless. Rick Fincher ranger@ecsvax
halp@TCGOULD.TN.CORNELL.EDU ("Bruce P. Halpern") (08/02/87)
Might Larry Rosenstein from Apple's address(es) be posted? p.s. If they are, I hope they include a path that isn't full of !crash, etc. .signature
ranger@ecsvax.UUCP ("Rick N. Fincher") (08/04/87)
I will see if I can find Larry Rosensteins's address and post it. Rick
lsr@apple.UUCP (Larry Rosenstein) (08/06/87)
In article <955@pbhyd.UUCP> lc@pbhyd.UUCP (Larry Colton) writes: > >Apple has selectively participated in electroninc exchange of information. >They have, in the past, been active in both Compuserve and Bix. I think >the frustration that is being felt is exacerbated by Apple's heritage. >The user that helped make Apple, the hobbiest, the home user, the garage >developer, feels abandoned. The people who post messages (including me) on comp.sys.mac do so on their own; ie, the jobs of these people are something other than answering questions on Usenet. In fact, most of these people are engineers working on various projects and not technical support people. I don't know why none of the Apple // engineers post messages on comp.sys.apple. Any engineer can get access to our VAX; it is simply a matter of learning Unix and how to send mail and post messages. My understanding is that some engineers answer questions on BIX and/or Compuserve (and possibly other services). Perhaps they feel that they reach a larger audience on those networks, so that their limited time is better spent there. It is true that not every Apple // owner can get access to Usenet, while anyone willing to pay the price can get access to the commercial services. Finally, my mailing address is listed in my .signature. You are free to send me mail, although I know nothing about the internals of the Apple //, and so I cannot answer any of those kinds of questions. I also cannot answer any "marketing-type" questions (eg, is Apple working on X, what price will Y be, etc.) -- Larry Rosenstein Object Specialist Apple Computer AppleLink: Rosenstein1 UUCP: {sun, voder, nsc, mtxinu, dual}!apple!lsr CSNET: lsr@Apple.com
lwv@n8emr.UUCP (Larry W. Virden) (08/08/87)
The opportunity for apple ii owners to get access to usenet is going to be increasing now that proline BBS systems are starting to spring into existence. Hopefully this will encourage Apple employees to jump in here and have some fun. Does anyone know of an address of an Apple II engineer at apple (that is, a uucp/arpa/bitnet address)? -- Larry W. Virden 75046,606 (CIS) 674 Falls Place, Reynoldsburg, OH 43068 (614) 864-8817 cbosgd!n8emr!lwv HAM/SWL BBS (HBBS) 614-457-4227.. 300/1200 bps We haven't inherited the world from our parents, but borrowed it from our children.
burton@SILVER.BACS.INDIANA.EDU (Rex_Burton) (08/10/87)
What is proline? where's it at? thanks Rex Burton@silver.bacs.indiana.edu
nazgul@apollo.uucp (Kee Hinckley) (08/12/87)
In article <8708101249.aa25387@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA> burton@SILVER.BACS.INDIANA.EDU (Rex_Burton) writes: > > What is proline? where's it at? thanks Rex Burton@silver.bacs.indiana.edu Well, Morgan Davis has been too good a net citizen to brazenly advertise ProLine - but I'm not proud. I should note that I am in no way associated with this product other than being fanatically in love it. ------ P R O L I N E I N F O R M A T I O N February 1987 ProLine is Copyrighted (c) 1984 by Morgan Davis All Rights Reserved * UNIX is a trademark of AT&T DESCRIPTION What Is ProLine? In the most basic description, ProLine is a networked electronic-mail and conferencing system. But it goes a lot deeper than that. It is the most complex and sophisticated message system ever created for use on an Apple computer and, quite possibly, for any small micro-based computer system. One would be in error to label it a "bulletin board system." ProLine was designed after the structure of a UNIX computer. This allows for the most flexible implementation available for a remote communications system. The UNIX architecture has proven to be an excellent environment for networked mail, public conferencing, and private electronic mail. Because of this unique design, a ProLine system is infinitely expandable and easily maintained with practically no operator intervention required. Adding a command or feature to a ProLine system is as simple as dropping an Applesoft BASIC program into a single directory. This is perhaps the most exciting aspect of ProLine because it encourages the development of additional applications by interested programmers. At the heart of every ProLine system is ModemWorks, a communications programming language that aids Applesoft programmers in building modem-related applications. The powerful features of ModemWorks provide ProLine with a sane, logical foundation which is easy to understand, and effortless to maintain. After reading the program specifications which follow, you'll see that there is something frighteningly awesome about this system. SPECIFICATIONS + User Features . Each user has his own directory area . A UNIX-like shell and commands are available to each user . A user can customize his auto-login script file . A user can choose the UNIX-like shell, or a single-key command shell . Terminal adjustments are available for: - Tab character preservation or expansion - Linefeeds after carriage returns - Cancel key character - Nulls after carriage returns . Full-screen terminal emulation for over 15 terminals . New termcaps can be created for other terminals as needed + Accounting . Logical limit of 256 accounts per 10mb system . Full online accounting is kept for each user . Optional per-minute charge can be set by the system operator . The operator can set the total minutes allotted per month per user . Operator can set number of inactive days before automatic removal . Full system accounting is maintained: - Tracks number of logins per user - Tracks minutes used per online session - Tracks minutes used for current and previous months - Tracks minutes used since account was established - Maintains amount owed for current month . Keeps current balance for other charges . User can get his own up-to-the-minute accounting report . A billing module can print invoices with mailing labels + Private E-Mail . ARPANET/UUCP-formatted mail system (for network compatibility) . Networked E-Mail via intersystem XMODEM protocol . Path and user aliasing . Distribution lists . Smart Router with domains and ability to use relay sites . Each user has his own unlimited-sized mailbox . The mailer can manage up to 150 messages at a time per mailbox . Unlimited message size . Multiple recipients (Carbon copies, and blind carbon copies) . Users can forward private messages to others . Each user can move his messages into files in his user area . The mailer allows users to read disk files into a message to send . Send text or binary information through the mailer (remotely, too) . Mailer supports user-definable variables for shortcut typing . Mailer generates return paths automatically when answering mail . Error protected network (bad messages are routed back to sender) . Full featured line editor + Public conferencing system . Multiple conferences . Multiple topic areas per conference . Each conference is assigned a moderator . Conference system knows which messages are unread for each user . Unlimited message size . XMODEM messages directly from conference area . Move messages into user area . Read files from user area into conference message . Full featured line editor . Various message addressing modes (next, original, unread, etc) . Moderator can create PUBLIC, PRIVATE, and READ-ONLY topics . Automatic message rollover for each conference topic + Data Library (upload/download section) . System operator can assign a librarian . Librarian creates library sections and shelves (up to 24) . Maximum 100 items per shelf (adjustable) . Librarian can access full library maintenance functions - Edit card catalog cards using a full-screen maintenance program - Validate new donations - Archive shelf items - Delete shelf items - Adjust library size and other attributes . Users can visit the information desk for help . Users donate to the library using XMODEM protocol . A donation can be indexed with multiple shelves . Donations are put on hold until validated by librarian . Accounting of each item on each shelf - Title - Type of file - Author - Six lines for comments/instructions - Donator's name and date posted - Size - Transfer time - Number of times checked out . Users can search the library for keywords and matching titles . Users can reserve and checkout multiple items before leaving . Checkout can use XMODEM protocol or text printout (if applicable) . Users can update their donations, or just edit their catalog cards . Users can check out up to 6 items per day (adjustable) . Users can leave requests for the librarian . Multiple files can be indexed by one name and accessed as a whole + Full Featured Text Editor . Holds up to 300 lines of text . Find any occurrence of a text pattern . Edit a single line (with prompted search and replacement) . Edit all or range of lines (with global search and replace) . Append file from user area to end of editor buffer . Insert lines into middle of buffer . Delete lines . Same editor used by all areas of ProLine + UNIX-like Shell . Shell resembles UNIX System V with BSD 4.2 extensions . Supports shell variables . Supports command aliasing . Executable shell scripts (batch/exec files) . IF-THEN-ELSE script logic . Scripts can access shell arguments (i.e., $1, $2, etc) . Full directory protection settings (rwxd) for all areas on system . All the popular UNIX commands are provided: - cd, cp, mv, ls, set, alias, rm, mkdir, cat, grep, lc, banner, adduser, time, ed, find, export, fortune, import, login, logout, man, news, mail, od, passwd, rmail, rmdir, rmuser, sleep, sendmail, sort, split, stty, who, echo, exit, pwd, exec, poll, df, xmodem, tset, tail, wc, ...and many more! . System operator can add his own commands from Applesoft programs . Cron daemon manages timed execution of tasks: - Precise to HH:MM, day of week, day of month, month of year - Allows for timed polling of intersystem mail - Can execute routine daily maintenance utilities - ag execute any shell command - Can run shell scripts for multiple command functions . UNIX-like password encryption . Login program can allow special login processes (not just user logins) . A RAM-based enhancement allows ProDOS to use UNIX-like filenames . User logins run the shell and execute the user's ".login" script . I/O redirection to printer (and to files with some applications) . Online games . UNIX-like "man" command formats and prints the system manual pages + Restricted Single-Key Shell . System members can use this optional "user friendly" shell . Single key command inputs are taken - Go to conference system - Read private mail - Send private mail - Visit Data Library - Report time accounting information - See system news files - Modify user's account info and terminal attributes - Exit to the UNIX-like shell (if allowed) - Show system members - Get system information - Log off + Help Facility . All programs have detailed multi-level help files . Each file is clearly written and nicely formatted . Over 160K of comprehensive online documentation . Every help file can be downloaded and/or printed out . The entire system manual can be printed with user-specified formatting SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS Computer Hardware: + Apple II+ w/64K, Apple IIe, or Apple IIGS + Minimum 5mb hard-disk (10mb hard-disk or larger strongly recommended) + ProDOS compatible clock card (or Apple IIGS built-in clock) + Floppy drive or 800k 3.5" drive Modem Hardware: + Apple-Cat II internal modem (212 card optional), or + Fully Hayes compatible external modem for use with: . Apple Super Serial card, or . Apple IIGS built-in modem port Optional Hardware that ProLine will take advantage of: + 2400bps modems + /RAM disks + Printer in slot 1 + Speed-up cards (Titan Technologies and Applied Engineering) FEATURES + Includes ModemWorks and AmperWorks FREE (a $60 value, manuals not included) + ProLine is easy to install, and takes only a few minutes + It can be placed into any directory on your hard-disk + Takes advantage of any RAM disk volumes on your specification + Three user status levels: root (sysop), staff, and guest + Any directory can be assigned a variety of access permissions: . Read . Write . Destroy . Execute + ProLine is best suited for: . Hobbyists who want to run a state-of-the-art BBS . Educators and students who correspond in open discussion forums . Schools that wish to network electronically within or outside of districts . Libraries and other information services . Businesses providing online technical support for their customers . Mail order firms, online advertising . Office automation and electronic mail ABOUT THE AUTHOR Morgan Davis began writing telecommunications software in 1983, and designed at least three predecessors to ProLine within three years before finally creating the system he was after. Other BBS systems had come and gone in the wake of its birth, but ProLine continued to mature and expand for two more years. And now, after nearly 70,000 callers (about 68 per day), Morgan Davis' beta-test ProLine system in San Diego has become one of the most-used systems, hosting callers from all across the nation and quite a few from Canada. His other credits include numerous technical research projects for CompuSoft Publishing's Learning BASIC book series, co-author of Mastering The Apple IIGS Toolbox from Compute! Publishers, member of the United Software Industries MouseTalk programming team, co-moderator of the Apple II conferences on the BYTE Magazine Information Exchange (BIX), and the author of ModemWorks and other utilities for Apple II computers. ORDERING INFORMATION Version 1.1 ProLine version 1.1 contains everything that you've read about (and a lot more). It is available right now for $195.50 (U.S. funds). Living Legends Software realizes this is a major software purchase for most individuals, and there is just too much about ProLine to describe here. So, if you're interested in the system, you are strongly urged to call our ProLine node in San Diego at 619/281-7222 (300, 1200, or 2400 bps, login as "guest"), in order to see firsthand what it is all about. Living Legends also encourages you to call our information hotline if you require more details on areas not discussed in this pamphlet. We want to make sure that ProLine is right for you and your particular application. As a special incentive, Living Legends is offering the first one-hundred ProLine owners free software updates when they become available. Our goal is to establish a nation-wide electronic network of ProLine systems in order to provide low-cost distribution of mail and information. (We hope to build an empire which surpasses that of a certain networked BBS named after a dog.) Terms Make your check or money order (United States funds) payable to Living Legends Software. Sorry, no bank charge cards accepted. Allow 3-4 weeks for delivery. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ORDER FORM (_____) ProLine version 1.1 package(s) at $195.50 ea. = $________ (_____) ModemWorks programmers manual(s) at $29.95 ea. = $________ Amount Total $________ Specify format: ____ 5.25" floppy disks, or ____ 3.5" microfloppies Type of computer ProLine will be running on: Apple II_____________ with a ________ megabyte ________________________ brand hard-disk. Name:___________________________________________________ Address:________________________________________________ City:________________________ State:_______ Zip:________ Phone: (DAYS)___________________ (EVES)_________________ Living Legends Software 1915 Froude Street San Diego, CA 92107 619/222-3722 -- ### {mit-erl,yale,uw-beaver}!apollo!nazgul ### apollo!nazgul@eddie.mit.edu ### ### pro-angmar!nazgul@pro-sol.cts.com ### nazgul@apollo.com ### ### (617) 641-3722 300/1200/2400 ### ### I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.