bird@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Walters) (10/25/87)
I would like to address some of the points raised by the following: --------------------------------------------------------------------- >The reason for the cheap price for Merlin 8/16 is that APW/ORCA is >already the defacto standard development system for the Apple IIgs. Merlin sold for $64 when I first bought it as plain old Merlin. Merlin Pro was $99. The move to $125 seems in line with history and in no way addresss ORCA/M as a competitor. In addition, Merlin provides an assembler that works for both ProDOS and DOS 3.3 which can be viewed as "double for your money." >Merlin 8/16 is basically a slightly modified version of Merlin >Pro. It uses non-standard OP codes (like LDAL and STAL) If the latest Merlin doesn't use the syntax of ORCA/M, then I'm disappointed since that syntax seems extenable to the 32 bit version of the 6502. In the past Merlin has used such syntax to force the assembler to generate code for an addressing mode inconsistent with the address in the data field. <does not have access to procedures written in Pascal or C, No access to brain damaged Pascal is not bad, however, C is a problem. <does not run under ProDOS 16, requires booting into ProDOS 16 to <test ProDOS 16 programs, can not take advantage of public domain <utilities that run under P16 shells, and basically doesn't take <advantage of the IIgs environment. Sounds like a valid knock. By the way, does P16 shells refer to APW? Are there more? Where does one find these public domain utilities? Are they useful outside assemblers? <It will probably be ok for dabblers but for people who want to <mix languages and operate under a real ProDOS 16 environment, <Merlin 8/16 will probably be a disappointment. The word "dabblers" will probably cause the greatest number of people in net land to mention you and your mom in phrases you would not appreciate. ---------------------------- Onward --------------------------------- Looking at the APDA catalog I see that you need the following in order to have an assembler, loader and linker using Apple products. The top two groups are for people that "bought" beta versions of the program. The bottom is for people that buy today for the first time. As you can see, the beta folks paid more and undoubtably put up with a great deal of grief if postings to the net are any indication. My friend Loran said the APDA and Apple's motto to beta testers ought to be "Thank you for paying dearly for support." (Wake up, its from Bartel's & James Wine Coolers.) While the early people got the program earlier, they were probably much more valuable as beta testers which would lead one to think that they should of received better treatment money wise. I know that my two experiences as beta tester yielded a "free" version at the conclusion of the testing period. However, based on McDonald's pay of $3.35 per hour, I lost money and was glad to do it since many of my inputs made it into the final version of the program. --------------------------- APW Buyers ------------------------------ Title Vers Cost Shipping Apple //gs Programmers Workshop 1.0B1 $100.00 $4.00 Apple //gs Programmers Workshop - Update 1.0B4 $30.00 $ .63 Apple //gs Programmers Workshop - Update 1.00 $30.00 $4.19 -------- ----- $160.00 $ 8.82 Apple //gs Programmers Workshop 1.0B4 $100.00 $4.00 Apple //gs Programmers Workshop - Update to 1.0 $30.00 $4.19 -------- ------ $130.00 $8.19 Apple //gs Programmers Workshop 1.0 $100.00 $4.19 -------- ------ $100.00 $4.19 --------------------------- ORCA/M Buyers --------------------------- ORCA/M is the assembler used by David Eyes and Ron Lichty in writing their excellent book "Programming the 65816" A Brady book, Published by Prentice Hall Press. Sorry, no ISBN number appears in the book. In the APDA catalog the phrase "Compatible with APW" appears with many of the ORCA/M packages. Does this imply that I need or would want APW if I had ORCA/M? If so, see above for additional cost. Title Vers Cost Shipping ORCA/M for the //gs 1.0 $44.95 $2.00 ORCA/M Utility Package #1 ? $24.95 $ .50 -------- ------- $69.90 $2.50 There are a number of packages available to enhance ORCA/M i.e. ORCA/Pascal in the //gs section of APDA. In addition, there are quite a few listed under Apple // (non //gs), that sometimes say they are compatible with ORCA/M for the //gs. What does this mean? Will they work on ProDOS 16? Seems hard to believe. Are versions coming that will be compatible with all versions of ProDOS? If I have to buy the complete line of ORCA/M in order to write programs for all Apples, the price will exceed Merlin by a great amount. --------------------------- Merlin 8/16 Buyers ---------------------- Title Vers Cost Shipping Merlin 8/16 to Registered Owners $ 60.00 $ .00 Merlin 8/16 to New Owners before 12/31/87 $ 85.00 $ .00 Merlin 8/16 to New Owners after 12/31/87 $124.95 $ .00 Merlin 8/16 to New Owners from magazines $ 75.00 $5.00 The last is a guess based on past experience. I have oftem used the Merlin program SOURCEROR to dissassemble code so I could fix and/or find out just what it is doing. I did not see such a disassembler listed for either APW or ORCA/M. Have I missed something? If not, this is a serious deficiency by those two products. (Please don't comment back about the monitor disassembler. It is not to disk and is deficient in every way to Merlin. Try Merlin before saying otherwise.) Also, if one wants to program for DOS 3.3 they will have to buy an additional assembler. What better choice than Merlin? --------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to answer/flame back, please don't quote all of this as it is already quite long. A couple of words will suffice for regular readers of the net. Joe Walters ihnp4!ihlpf!bird Work (312) 979-3091