jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") (01/14/88)
Why is it necessary that the only interface between the user and Prodos 16 is the Finder? At this point, having used Macs in public clusters, I find the //GS Finder to be a bit hard to swallow. Until Apple, Zip Technologies (wherever they may be), or anyone else speeds up the GS, the Finder seems to me to be just a fancy trick program to show what the GS tools can do... EXCEPT that it is the only way to communicate with Prodos 16 (managing files, maintanance, etc.) As the standard program launcher, the 16 bit GS virtually IS a Finder. Whenever you turn the machine on or exit a program, the Finder would appear, just like on the Macintosh. Well, I would rather have atleast the OPTION of a more basic, text-based shell, kind of like Basic.System, but more rudimentary, like UNIX. A good example of the thing I would like to see is what Kyan's Kix was like in Prodos 8. Then, the Finder can be run on TOP of this shell, like a master application, if one wishes to use it. This shell would be useful for people who wish to use their Apples as Apples, not Macs. Steve Jobs wanted to "force" users to follow the Mac standards and learn to use mice and windows (remember the first Macs did not have cursor keys so people would have to learn mice). But the //GS is not and should not be a Mac. It should have comparable capabilities, as there is no excuse in the computer world for a new machine to kepp up with the times, but it should not so strictly follow the Mac environment. The solution is to have the GS be capable of the Mac interface, but not limited to it as well. This is where a low level "command shell" just above Prodos 16 but beneath application files would come in. One thing that this would allow would be greater customizability of the environment. As in UNIX, a "preferences" file can be created to set certain operating conditions of the machine. (I know some people who share a GS, but one uses it in 40 columns and in blue and white w/ blue border, the other in 80 columns with purple and black and no border. Each time, they must go through the control panel and reset the machine to their likings. Gets to be a pain after a while). Applications could support such a file to initiate customizable features within their environments. Aliases can be set up, keys redefined, and batch files can be written, all things that are currently not possible under the Finder. Finally, programmers would feel a bit more in control of their computers. This has always been the case with older Apples as well as IBMs, but never Macs. What's nice about the idea is that it would, again, lie beneath the Finder and people not interested in it would never have to deal with it. But it would allow a little more freedom with which to experiment with the machine; something that has always made the // series a bit more appealing to me. What problems whould there be with this? Suggestions? Ideas?
gwyn@brl-smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (01/14/88)
In article <8Vuufsy00XoBEy809A@andrew.cmu.edu> jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") writes: >Why is it necessary that the only interface between the user and Prodos 16 is >the Finder? It isn't! ProDOS is not really much more than a bunch of subroutines an application can call to perform file operations. It also supplies an interrupt handler and a few other on-demand facilities, but by no means is it "in charge" of the computer, unlike many "real" operating systems. Any 16-bit Apple IIGS application can invoke ProDOS-16 features or ignore them, depending on its requirements. The main thing "built in" about ProDOS-16 is that it helps dynamically load program segments during execution. There are other "shells" (generic user interfaces) available, for example the APW shell, which unfortunately seems to be modeled after VMS rather than UNIX.
prw@meccsd.MECC.MN.ORG (Paul R. Wenker) (01/19/88)
The current release of the system disk comes with both the Finder and the old Launcher. The 'START' program launches the Finder, unless there is not enough memory, in which case it launches Launcher. If you want some other program to be the startup application (i.e. Launcher), just rename it to 'START' and put it in the system folder. -Paul R. Wenker -MECC
jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") (01/20/88)
Thanks all for the info. I am afraid to say, however, that most or all of the alternative environments you mentioned are either expensive, hard to find, or (most often) both. I guess I am just wishing for the good ol' days when a fully functional and customizable OS came with the machine. Although Prodos 8 is good and faithful, Finder is the only thing you can work with in 16 bit mode when you put the thing together out of the box. At this point in my life, ADPA is a big investment. ECP16 from Don Elton sounds reasonable, but I would like some specs. and Whatever happened with Kyan's Kix-GS? [By the way. I just got a copy of Gary Little's "Apple Prodos: Advanced Featured for Programmers." As this was written during the days of 1.1.1, how out of date is the book in regards to Prodos 8?] My other purpose in writing "P16E" was whether anybody cared about the idea of a preferences file. The system used here at CMU as well as at MIT (Athena) and maybe Berkeley makes extensive use of a text-based preferences file from which applications can find specs on what little things the user would like to see changed, such as default values, files to be executed, macros, and even a background raster image. In a setting where a computer is shared, control panel access would be nice, instead of each user having to reset it to his tastes by hand (Macs have this problem). The GS has the potential (if it ever gets some speed...) to be a truly great machine, especially if someone carries out the threat of porting a UNIX clone, but it needs some standards that support such capabilities. I just don't think that the Finder shell can cut it, as it cannot be programmed. I expect there should be another, faster, SMALLER version of Prodos 16 coming out eventually. When it does, it will become the standard along with any shell that is packaged with it. Whatever that is, I can only hope that it is more powerful than Finder. Capt. Albatross
11SSTEINBRIN@GALLUA.BITNET ("Scott A. Steinbrink ", Derich Carring) (01/22/88)
Bingo... ditto...right to the point.... :-)