[comp.sys.apple] VT100

V066EDD9@ubvms.BITNET (Dan Harkavy aka Komix-Kid aka Lillanthar Fartraveller of the Gatecrafter's Guild) (01/09/88)

From:	IN%"unknown@ucscb"  9-JAN-1988 03:07
To:	V066EDD9@UBVMS.BITNET
Subj:	Re: VT100 Emulation

Return-path: unknown@ucscb
Received: from JNET-DAEMON by UBVMS; Sat, 9 Jan 88 03:06 EST
Received: From UCSCC(DAEMON) by UBVMSB with RSCS id 5402          for
 V066EDD9@UBVMS; Sat,  9 Jan 88 03:06 EST
Received: by ucscc (5.57/1.1)        id AA25394; Sat, 9 Jan 88 00:06:00 PST
Received: by ucscb.UCSC.EDU (4.12/4.7)        id AA17903; Sat, 9 Jan 88
 00:04:28 pst
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 88 00:04:28 pst
From: unknown@ucscb
Subject: Re: VT100 Emulation
To: V066EDD9@UBVMS.BITNET
Message-Id: <8801090804.AA17903@ucscb.UCSC.EDU>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple
In-Reply-To: <8801081524.aa09904@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA>
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz; CATS

ProTERM 2.0 supports VT100 emulation...I don't actually know if 2.0 is out
yet, but 1.9, which is a pre-release to 2.0 also supports VT 100, and, most
logically, all henceforth ProTERMs will support VT100, as well as a multitude
of other terminal types.
 
I cannot post to the NET (because I am using the type of account that everyone
can get), so would you please post this information to the NET and give me
credit?
 
Thank you very much.

delaney@wnre.aecl.CDN (Grant Delaney) (01/10/88)

The differance between the the Vt100 and the VT52 is not just the length of
the sequence that Larry Virden mentions below.  The differances go much deeper
into how the screen locations etc are handled internally.

>The VT52 is MUCH easier to emulate than a VT100 since the pgm only has to
>scan for the single control character.  The ANSI escape sequences sometimes
>can be dozens of characters long!  If you have line noise, it can cause
>problems in that a sequence is misinterpreted.

This response I recieved from Don Elton when discussing his Shareware Program
TIC (Another entry in the list of terminal programs supporting VT52 and 
terminal emulations) better discribes the differance between VT52 and VT100.

>>  Look at the way GOTOXY sequences are handled by say a VT-52
>>compared to a VT-100.  With the VT-52 there's a PREFIX character, an ADDRESS
>>CURSOR character, followed by a single byte for the X coordinate and a single
>>byte for the Y coordinate (probably with some sort of offset).  On the VT-100
,
>>instead of sending a binary value for the coordinates, it sends an ascii
>>string.  i.e. to say column 64 a binary coded terminal might send the value
>>$40 while an ascii coded terminal would send the string "64" or $36, $34.
>>The ascii method wastes more time (is slower) and is harder to parse since yo
u
>>can't just use a table to do it.

Grant

SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (03/13/88)

 WILLIAMS MICHAEL SCOTT <tramp!williamm@boulder.colorado.EDU> writes:
>And about VT100, the reason that it has such a high demand is that it is
>basically a standard; supported HIGHLY on DEC systems...

VT100 also is widely supported by IBM mainframe protocol converters.
Even the most widely used program for linking an IBM-PC (YTerm) with an
IBM mainframe uses ANSI (essentially a VT100).  Most of us using
Apple II's to communicate with IBM mainframes use VT100 because that
emulation supports more of the mainframe's editing features than
alternatives (VT52, ADM3A, etc.).

Mainframes (ESPECIALLY IBM mainframes) can't support XModem.  That's
what makes KERMIT so popular.  I'm puzzled by communications programs
that support terminal emulations but not Kermit (so far, I haven't
seen a BBS that supports any teerminal more sophisticated than a linemode
33KSR <teletype machine>).  What's the point?

---------------------
Disclaimer: I like my opinions better than my employers anyway...
            (subject to change without notice; void where prohibited)

ARPA:   sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu       Murphy A. Sewall
BITNET: SEWALL@UCONNVM                          School of Business Admin.
UUCP:   ...ihnp4!psuvax1!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL  University of Connecticut

kolding@ji.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Koldinger) (03/14/88)

In article <8803121505.ab17271@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA> SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET writes:
>Mainframes (ESPECIALLY IBM mainframes) can't support XModem.  That's
>what makes KERMIT so popular.  I'm puzzled by communications programs
>that support terminal emulations but not Kermit (so far, I haven't
>seen a BBS that supports any teerminal more sophisticated than a linemode
>33KSR <teletype machine>).  What's the point?

Well, a lot of us use Unix systems which can support XModem, and we need
some sort of terminal emulation so we can use full screen editors.  In fact,
the main use of my communications is to connect me to Unix as a terminal,
and file transfer is only a secondary feature.

		_   /|				Eric
		\`o_O'				kolding@ji.berkeley.edu
  		  ( )     "Gag Ack Barf"	{....}!ucbvax!ji!kolding
   	    	   U

lwv@n8emr.UUCP (Larry W. Virden) (03/15/88)

Sewall, the point in this is in accessing such minor services such as Compuserve,
Bix, Delphi, Genie, AppleLink, colleges, universities, local BBS, etc.

Most folks add on terminal emulations last if they are suppling file transfer,
or they add on file transfer AFTER the terminal emulation.  If they do the
first, then xmodem is the ONLY standard file transfer for bbs file transfer;
kermit is great, but isnt available on most BBS and only recently on CIS - and
it is not really speedy there.  If they do the second (adding file transfer
afterwards) then they find that Xmodem is quite easy to add, whereas Kermit
is not quite so easy, IF you are going to offer the wide range of support
areas as Ted has provided.

Primarily, Apple 2 owners are treated poorly in development software, comm
software, and productivity software areas at this time.  The Apple 2 is
considered a great game machine, a useable educational machine, and a
handicapped machine otherwise APPARENTLY by the various software developers.
_I_ know differently, but that MUST be the reason that we see no development
software for the Apple 2 from Microsoft, Borland, Lightspeed, etc.  The 
only company who provided reasonable development software is Byteworks and
TML - and these companies primarily produce software for the GS.  Pecan
makes claims of having UCSD software for the 2 series, but I have never heard
anyone claim to be using this software wsuccessfully.


-- 
Larry W. Virden	 75046,606 (CIS)
674 Falls Place, Reynoldsburg, OH 43068 (614) 864-8817
osu-cis!n8emr!lwv (UUCP) 	osu-cis!n8emr!lwv@PSUVAX1 (BITNET)
We haven't inherited the world from our parents, but borrowed it from our children.