Bruce_Kahn@maytag.ceo.dg.COM (05/23/88)
Why is it that these speed chips for the Apple // say they can speed up EXTERNAL devices when their clocks that are faster are internal to them selves. I never realized that the 6502 had its own clock output as well ;^). Can someone tell me (and the rest of the world) how this amazing thing may be accomplished? Osmosis?!?
cscbrkac@charon.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) (05/24/88)
> Why is it that these speed chips for the Apple // say they can > speed up EXTERNAL devices when their clocks that are faster are > internal to them selves. I never realized that the 6502 had its own > clock output as well ;^). Can someone tell me (and the rest of the > world) how this amazing thing may be accomplished? Osmosis?!? Actually it's true, to a limited extent, with some disk drives...specifically fast ones. On a 1MHz Apple //, some hard drives can retrieve data faster than the machine can accept it. If the machine looks for the data coming off the hard drive more frequently, it gets it faster. Which makes the hard drive APPEAR faster. (Of course it really isn't but ACCESS is faster, which from the user's POV is basically the same thing.) -- Lazlo Nibble (cscbrkac@charon.unm.edu) "Bum bum BUM!" -Art of Noise
spike@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Spike) (05/24/88)
In article <67.011023@adam.DG.COM> Bruce_Kahn@MAYTAG.CEO.DG.COM writes: < Why is it that these speed chips for the Apple // say they can >speed up EXTERNAL devices when their clocks that are faster are <internal to them selves. I never realized that the 6502 had its own >clock output as well ;^). Can someone tell me (and the rest of the <world) how this amazing thing may be accomplished? Osmosis?!? The 6502, 65C02, and 65802 do have a clock outputs, two in fact. One is the inputed signal and the other the inverse of that signal. But on the Apples they seem to be No Connects. My Best Guess(TM) is that the chips load the cards ROM in to their faster memory. (That is what the Rocket Info seems to imply) I would think that this speeds it up a bit, but it can't be that much (or you would need the card would you...) "You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll kiss 3 bucks goodbye." UUCP: ...!harvard!bu-cs!bu-it!spike INTERNET: spike@bu-it.bu.edu CSNET: spike%bu-it@bu-cs BITNET: spike%bu-it.bu.edu@bostonu
GZT.EWW@OZ.AI.MIT.EDU (Wes Williams) (05/25/88)
Re: (Bruce_Kahn asks) How can they say their chips speed up external devices? I am quite sure they can't, but they appear to. On floppy drives, Apple has programmed in a delay of the drive read terminating its read. The drive finishes its read (or write) and remains on for an additional 1/2 second or so. After this time is passed, the drive read/write light winks out and that section of the process is completed. We all have seen this as multiple read/writes access the disk and the light blinks off and on. Processing within the computer is taking place as the signals to read/write are transmitted to the drive(s). As computer processing time is shortened during this example, the accelerated computer has the ability to process data at a higher rate, thus the data being read/written is assimilated faster, yielding a (under some circumstances) a non-flashing drive access light. It has nothing to do with the external device other than cutting processing time. The end result is assimilated data from a drive that is visibly shortened in access time. I will go out on a limb here and say that (depending on data type) the access time can be as much as %50 faster. This is a phony statement that does prove out. More appropriately just misstated to shorten the sales pitch. \|/es \|/illiams -------
bird@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Walters) (05/25/88)
> Why is it that these speed chips for the Apple // say they can > speed up EXTERNAL devices when their clocks that are faster are > internal to them selves. I never realized that the 6502 had its own > clock output as well ;^). Can someone tell me (and the rest of the > world) how this amazing thing may be accomplished? Osmosis?!? Not amazing at all. Most periherial cards do not have a processor on them, just a ROM that your friendly motherboard 6502 uses as a source of program. If the processor runs faster it will execute that program faster. Joe Walters ihnp4!ihlpf!bird IHP 1F-240 (312) 416-5356 -- Joe Walters ihnp4!ihlpf!bird IHP 1F-240 (312) 416-5356
kamath@reed.UUCP (Sean Kamath) (05/26/88)
In article <67.011023@adam.DG.COM> Bruce_Kahn%MAYTAG.CEO.DG.COM@adam.dg.com writes: > > Why is it that these speed chips for the Apple // say they can >speed up EXTERNAL devices when their clocks that are faster are >internal to them selves. I never realized that the 6502 had its own >clock output as well ;^). Can someone tell me (and the rest of the >world) how this amazing thing may be accomplished? Osmosis?!? Yes, the 6502 has two clock, but they are internal, and have nothing to do with the world. Similarly, the ZIP/Rocket chip have their own internal clocks. However, that clock is changable. What makes them fast is disk caching. This is the reason the Rocket chip says they are compatible with DMA devices, but only at 1 MHz. Simply put, the chip has a gob 'o memory onboard (a gob is defined as "enough") which it reads in from RAM/ROM at normal speed. By normal speed, I mean as fast as the circuitry allows. Once it is in the cache memory, it can by "used" by the CPU at it's own pace. Unfortunately, if a DMA device comes in and modifies the "real" memory when it's in the cache, things may or may not die a horrible death. If anyone wants a little longer dissertation on the concept, send me e-mail. Sean Kamath -- UUCP: {decvax allegra ucbcad ucbvax hplabs ihnp4}!tektronix!reed!kamath CSNET: reed!kamath@Tektronix.CSNET || BITNET: reed!kamath@PSUVAX1.BITNET ARPA: reed!kamath@PSUVAX1.CS.PSU.EDU US Snail: 3934 SE Boise, Portland, OR 97202-3126 (I hate 4 line .sigs!)
blume@netmbx.UUCP (Heiko Blume) (05/26/88)
external devices of course can't be faster with accelerators, they
can only be accessed faster. for instance my harddisk controller
doesnt have to wait so long for the comp to read the data and
the cards registers can be programmed faster. as for the roms
it might be a bit difficult to manage bank switched roms by copying
them to 'onchip' ram.
--
Heiko Blume # DOMAIN: blume@netmbx.UUCP { BITNET: ( mixed }
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Telex : 183008 intro d # Fax : (+49 30) 882 50 65 mturner@convex.UUCP (05/27/88)
Well only certain devices may show an increase in speed.
If you try to read/write to a disk][ at a higer speed it will not
work. This is why on many speed up boards the slot memory can be
slowed down. The disk ][ is timing dependent and this timing is
down by counting machine instruction cycles on apple][e{c,+}s.
---Mike Turner
"imagination is more important than knowledge"--A. Einstein
p.s. This post may be a fact but I don't believe it! :-)