AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET (David A. Lyons) (07/16/88)
>Date: Wed, 13 Jul 88 13:28:00 N >From: DEFFER%CGEUGE51.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Eric DEFFERARD) >Subject: If the GS meant business... >The GS was designed because someone to whom Apple owed a lot, wanted to >give Apple's first fans a beautiful toy. Really? I think they designed the GS because it is a logical step up from an Apple II, maintaining software and hardware compatibility while adding a lot of new functionality. Something that there is a market for. >If the GS meant business, these demos would have been done when the GS >started shipping 2 years ago. Sure, but 2 years ago most of the stuff being demonstrated was not finished (or not even started!), and the language they will be in (C, right?) was in a very rough form (Apple was [& is, as far as I know] writing the system software in assembly). Who knows--the demos may even demo some things that are currently still under development. I'm willing to wait. In the meantime, there is enough other demo source available. >If the GS meant business, Apple would send these notes and demos by >first class air mail to every one who asks for them FOR FREE (they >can afford it). I am a member of APDA but please, do send them on this >net, lots of GS owners aren't. Why can't you for once make a nice >move and provide something without being asked ? EXACTLY, Apple should take notice of the trends in industry in this respect. Every year, GM totals up all their extra profits & gives away all the free cars they can AFFORD to! And NBC figures out how much free advertising time they can afford to give away, and you can bet they DO IT. Really, I don't think the above attitude is very fair to Apple. They ARE providing something without being asked. Did YOU write Apple and ask for demo source? Keep in mind that Apple is most likely working on a lot of stuff for the IIgs that we don't KNOW about. Think about all the rumors you've heard--some of them are probably based in fact. There's a lot more going on than tech-support. >About GS Works, well my opinion is that Apple does not want to develop >software, and definitely doesn't want to increase the size of it's GS >departement because they don't want to spend money on the GS line. Apple *is* developing software--SYSTEM software, not application software. Claris does the application software. >[...] if Claris bought Styleware, I believe it's because they want >to get the credit [for GS Works]. This tactic could have worked well >if they bought Styleware a couple of months ago before they published >that ad in apple 2 magazines. You're entitled to your own pessimistic opinions. I think Claris bought Styleware because they didn't have enough Apple II programmers, and they figured buying a company full of very good Apple II programmers would be a good way to get some. I'm confident that Kevin Harvey would not have allowed his company to be bought unless he thought it would be beneficial to the GS world. >Eric DEFFERARD >BITNET DEFFER@CGEUGE51 >UUCP mcvax!cernvax!cui!deffer --David A. Lyons a.k.a. DAL Systems PO Box 287 | North Liberty, IA 52317 BITNET: AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS CompuServe: 72177,3233 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2
DEFFER@CGEUGE51.BITNET (07/20/88)
In reply to : AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET (David A. Lyons) >>The GS was designed because someone to whom Apple owed a lot, wanted to >>give Apple's first fans a beautiful toy. > >Really? I think they designed the GS because it is a logical step >up from an Apple II, maintaining software and hardware compatibility >while adding a lot of new functionality. Something that there is a >market for. My own "business logic" tells me that those "new functionalities" don't have anything to do anymore with the apple 2 (because apple 2 e,c owners will NOT benefit, directly or indirectly, of anything developed around these new functionalities), and worse, they don't even make the GS compatible with the Mac. So, what does Apple end up with ? The logical step is that they end up with a new product line and which, as such, needs it's own tech support team, engineering team, and software team and all that costs a lot. Furthermore, my opinion is that today computer manufacturers try to merge their different product lines (or at least make them software compatible) to reduce the costs inherent to support. By introducing the GS, Apple has now 3 different OS to support: Prodos 8, Prodos 16 (GS OS ?), and Mac OS. That's why I don't believe the GS is the consequence of a marketing decision, unless marketing deliberately knew they wouldn't or couldn't give the GS the kind of support they actually give for the Mac, or unless they thought disposing of apple 2 teams, thinking (hoping?) the apple 2 was reaching it's end. You say it's because there's a market ? Yeah sure, people who can't afford Macs, but don't want to spend their money for an Apple 2e (I understand they don't want to buy something I call crap nowadays) (I know, I don't have a heart :-) ), but still want to buy an Apple computer. This means marketing succeeds in selling lots of GS, but... isn't it rather the brand they sell ? you know, that little multi-colored apple ? I wonder what would have happened if Apple cut their price off Macs to about the same as the GS, and didn't announce the GS at all. Would Apple have sold more Macs than the total of Macs+GS they have actually sold ? I think so. >>If the GS meant business, Apple would send these notes and demos by >>first class air mail to every one who asks for them FOR FREE (they >>can afford it). > >EXACTLY, Apple should take notice of the trends in industry in this >respect. Every year, GM totals up all their extra profits & gives >away all the free cars they can AFFORD to! And NBC figures out how >much free advertising time they can afford to give away, and you can >bet they DO IT. >Really, I don't think the above attitude is very fair to Apple. >They ARE providing something without being asked. Did YOU write >Apple and ask for demo source? Okay, I was a little rough, but David, I'm not asking Apple to give away computers, just asking them to provide facilities to people who are interested in making the GS a popular system, the consequence being an increase of sales. The Apple 2 became quickly popular because lots of people started writing specific applications for it, not just word processors and spreadsheets. And most of these people weren't certified developers, yet received a minimum information on how things worked when they bought their computer. Before software development becomes a business, it's generally to satisfy a specific and personal need, because the existing software doesn't fit your needs. How many specific GS programs are actually on the market ? (lemme guess, uh 50 ? with about 50% games ?) 50 programs in 2 years ?????? hum, seems like the gs ain't really attracting software development. Why ? is the GS hard to program ? are there performance, graphics, memory problems ? do programmers (amateur and professional) have the tools to develop software ? I did ask Apple for demo sources, they told me I had to be a certified developer. And to become a certified developer, you need a business running with Apple computers. I don't have any business with Apple except that I bought one. It ain't enough to become a certified developer. So no demo source from apple for me. By the way if anybody can answer these 2 questions: how many GS sold in Europe ? How many european certified developers ? >Keep in mind that Apple is most likely working on a lot of stuff for >the IIgs that we don't KNOW about. Think about all the rumors you've >heard--some of them are probably based in fact. There's a lot more >going on than tech-support. David, rumors are just what they are: rumors, until some Apple official officially declares: "We are working on an enhanced version of the 2gs". The guy doesn't have to talk about schedules or enhancements. Everybody knows what the GS lacks and is concerned about chip shortage, improvements, so everybody knows what Apple will try to provide through this new version. >>About GS Works, well my opinion is that Apple does not want to develop >>software, and definitely doesn't want to increase the size of it's GS >>departement because they don't want to spend money on the GS line. > >Apple *is* developing software--SYSTEM software, not application >software. Claris does the application software. Claris hasn't even celebrated it's 1st birthday so I think I can reasonably say that Apple has developed application software. The point is they haven't developed much application software for the GS when they started shipping, unlike the Mac which had MacPaint and MacWrite bundled with it. Anyways, what GS software does Claris sell today ? >>[...] if Claris bought Styleware, I believe it's because they want >>to get the credit [for GS Works]. This tactic could have worked well >>if they bought Styleware a couple of months ago before they published >>that ad in apple 2 magazines. > >You're entitled to your own pessimistic opinions. I think Claris >bought Styleware because they didn't have enough Apple II >programmers, and they figured buying a company full of very good >Apple II programmers would be a good way to get some. I'm confident >that Kevin Harvey would not have allowed his company to be bought >unless he thought it would be beneficial to the GS world. Yeah, and Claris just bought Nashoba, which developed Filemaker (a Mac database program) because they didn't have enough Mac programmers. You gotta be kidding. Claris is just doing business the easy way with $$$ and Sculley's blessing. Oh, by the way, did you know that Claris is now in direct competition with Microsoft and Lotus corp. for the title of biggest software development company ? ----- Eric DEFFERARD BITNET DEFFER@CGEUGE51 UUCP mcvax!cernvax!cui!deffer