tmetro@lynx.northeastern.EDU (08/08/88)
David Whitney <pnet01!crash!think.com!whitney> writes: > Just posted the latest Z-Link. Keep those suggestions coming! After seeing this and knowing that there are at least three telecom program developers out there reading Info-Apple I thought I would add my thoughts on the subject. The software I currently use, and like, is AE Pro. Unfortunately it has been quite a while since it was updated and it is lacking in features in comparison to the newer packages. Andy <A1T@ecl.psu.edu> writes: > I'm looking for a really good communications program. Right now, I use > 3 or 4 different ones, depending on what i'm doing, because each has > its specific strengths and weaknesses. I too have this problem. Mostly because AE is lacking Kermit, VT100, and a good editor. > Here are the features I'm looking for: ...and I would also like to see: > -Really good VT100 emulation > -Ascii, xmodem, ymodem, zmodem file transfer In particular I'd like to see AE Pro compatable Xmodem, Ymodem batch, Kermit Binary II (maybe even BLU style with squeezing) and possibly Morgan Davis' Xmodem-4K. > -Easy-to-enter commands I like the format that AE uses. A prompt that can be brought up at any time to accept single character comands. I might like a command line interpreter style interface, providing it can be done alot better than Kermit's. > -macros Of the programs I've tried: ProTerm, Point-To-Point, CommWorks, TIC, and Zlink none have I really tried out the macros on. All were lacking features in some way so that I never purchased/got involved with them enough to test the macros. ProTerm, I think, is the only one that has a learn feature. I'd like to see powerful macros (which tend to be hard to learn - basically a new language) along with a learn command. This way new users can get started quick, yet have lots of potential once the user is familiar with the macro language. One particular feature I'd like to see in a macro language is better loops, simple math (for controlling loops), and variables (starting to sound more and more like a language - eh?). > -Ability to execute ProDOS commands A simple shell for ProDOS that could be entered/exited while online would be ideal. Also the option of entering a single ProDOS command without having to go to the shell (i.e. like many MS-DOS programs' shell feature) would be nice. > -Ability to run under DOS 3.3 or ProDOS or at least save files under either > system Ability to run under either system is unnecessary, but ability to save files under either OS would be useful. I think that was Smartcom's only feature. This is becomming less and less important as fewer people are using and transfering DOS 3.3 files. > -should quit to DOS (kermit does this... i hate the 'enter prefix') Thats BASIC, not DOS. I like a normal quit just fine. Try using 'Squirt' or a similar program to avoid 'enter prefix'. > And of course all the normal modem pgm stuff, like sending breaks, a copy > buffer, auto linefeed selection, etc. I'd also like to see scrollback and a full screen editor. I would be interested to see a telecom program that incorporated FredWriter (or a similar editor) as the copy buffer editor. Auto-linefeed selection? Thats new to me. Lazlo Nibble <unmvax!charon!cscbrkac@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> writes: > I use ProTERM. Yes, I know it isn't shareware, but I think it's worth the > price: The bigest thing I don't like about ProTerm (when used with a Hayes compatable) is its attempt to control the modem (which I have heard doesn't always work with all modems at all speeds.) I would much prefer to have direct connection to the modem at all times when off line (as in AE) and use macros for setting up the modem and dialing. In particular I found ProTerm to be very resistant to exiting and entering while still online. ("Error: can't initialize the modem.") > * It handles file transfers in ASCII, Xmodem (vanilla, DOS, and ProDOS > flavors), Ymodem, Kermit, and Transit<?>, and does them in file, batch, > Binary II, or disk (DDD/PBH compatible) format either uploading or > downloading. The only thing I wish it had is Zmodem. The ability to send a disk and/or use DDD/PBH format packing would be useful. > * Easy access to ProDOS commands (copy files, rename, format disk, delete > files, create subdir, easy directory traversal, etc.) Easy directory traversal would be a definite plus. AE is probably the worst program for dealing with ProDOS directories. Under certain conditions with AE there is no way to find out the volume name of a floppy disk without exiting the program. It lacks any sort of an 'online' command. > * Views and prints TXT and APW files An APW option wouldn't hurt, but not necessary. If AppleWorks was designed properly it would have been alot easier to import/export text files to it. > you can't access /RAM (it uses 44K for a copy/edit buffer and the rest for > scrollback, up to your full capacity, whether you like it or not :-(). Obviously all of this is going to take alot of memory. It should certainly use up 128K, if needed, for all the features, but it shouldn't go beyond that (for editing or scrollback) unless the user configures it to. To recap the major features that I'd like to see: o Powerful macros (at least as good as AE's) o Scrollback o Full screen editor o No "smart" modem control o Protocols: Xmodem(AE), Ymodem, Kermit, Binary II formatting. o VT100 emulation If one of you developers could provide a program like this I would be more than happy to pay a shareware or commercial fee for the product. The availability of source code (at an additional fee) would certainly be nice too. If any of the developers want more details on the suggestions - feel free to Email. ___________ ./ Tom Metro \_____________________________________________________________. | _ _ | | INET: tmetro@pro-angmar.uucp --/\/\_| |_| '- DigiTell, Inc. | | ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-angmar!tmetro@nosc.mil Newton, MA | | UUCP: [ihnp4 sdcsvax nosc]!crash!pnet01!pro%angmar!tmetro | |_Alternate: tmetro@lynx.northeastern.edu__________________________________| "I think I was kidding" - Reagan
neighbor@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Jeffrey Alan Ding) (08/09/88)
In article <memo.41162@lynx.northeastern.edu> tmetro@lynx.northeastern.EDU writes: > > David Whitney <pnet01!crash!think.com!whitney> writes: >> Just posted the latest Z-Link. Keep those suggestions coming! >After seeing this and knowing that there are at least three telecom program >developers out there reading Info-Apple I thought I would add my thoughts on >the subject. > >The software I currently use, and like, is AE Pro. Unfortunately it has >been quite a while since it was updated and it is lacking in features >in comparison to the newer packages. I just recieved my new update of Mousetalk. It is now version 1.5. It's got a bunch of new features. >> -Really good VT100 emulation >> -Ascii, xmodem, ymodem, zmodem file transfer >In particular I'd like to see AE Pro compatable Xmodem, Ymodem batch, Kermit >Binary II (maybe even BLU style with squeezing) and possibly Morgan Davis' >Xmodem-4K. Mousetalk 1.5 will now does Xmodem, CRC mode, 1k Xmodem , 4k Xmodem, and Binary II. It has an option to turn on and off the Ascii Express mode, making it compatible with standard Xmodem or AE xmodem. (AE xmodem sends the extra block for the file type data.) You can also specify the file type AE saves the data to. It's got 9 standard file types on screen with 30 that it knows (by text.) Or you can specify the type by number. It's got a very good (supposedly) vt100 emulator. I am using it right now in fact. I'm using VI on UNIX with no problems. I have heard that PROTERM messes up on wrapped lines. This one works fine with wrapped lines. The full screen text editor has been expanded out to 36000 characters from 33792. The clip board is a bit larger too. Full Pathnames can be entered by the keyboard now instead of using the Prefix box. Mousetalk is also capable of using extended memory cards and can be run from a Ram disk. Note that if you only have 128k, it will destroy the 64k ram drive. >> -Easy-to-enter commands Mousetalk is very easy to enter commands. (If you have a mouse.) But there are all the keyboard open-apple equivelants for most of them. Some new keys are used in the new 1.5 version. >> -macros Mousetalk's Macros are full features. But no Auto learn feature exists. >> -Ability to execute ProDOS commands >> * Easy access to ProDOS commands (copy files, rename, format disk, delete >> files, create subdir, easy directory traversal, etc.) With Mousetalk you can view a file, delete, rename, catalog, and volumes on line. Someone said it has no online command. These commands were always present. >Easy directory traversal would be a definite plus. AE is probably the worst >program for dealing with ProDOS directories. Under certain conditions with AE >there is no way to find out the volume name of a floppy disk without exiting >the program. It lacks any sort of an 'online' command. I have never had any problems with moving around in directories with Mousetalk. Some problems are if you are in a subdirectory and you remove the disk and try to close that subdirectory, it will look around for the disk and give you an error cause it couldn't find it. But all you do is leave the disk in until you are one away from the root. Then you remove the disk and insert a new disk. Then when it goes to check the drives it will find your new disk. >> * Views and prints TXT and APW files You can view TXT but not APW >> you can't access /RAM (it uses 44K for a copy/edit buffer and the rest for >> scrollback, up to your full capacity, whether you like it or not :-(). Mousetalk has always had a scrollback buffer. It is 8k. Note this buffer is separate from the 36k of the editor so you can have a file in the editor without it being interupted from the scroll back. >To recap the major features that I'd like to see: > o Powerful macros (at least as good as AE's) > o Scrollback > o Full screen editor > o No "smart" modem control > o Protocols: Xmodem(AE), Ymodem, Kermit, Binary II formatting. > o VT100 emulation I think Mousetalk hits on all of these features. No Kermit transfer though. And now with vt100 emulation. I think this greatly improves the performance. One neat thing: On the disk they include BLU by Floyd Zink, a type changer program written in basic. I think this is the same one posted to APPLE2L a long time ago. And some type of file editor runable from ProDOS16. If you have an older version of Mousetalk, you can upgrade for $25 bucks. > ___________ >./ Tom Metro \_____________________________________________________________. >| _ _ | >| INET: tmetro@pro-angmar.uucp --/\/\_| |_| '- DigiTell, Inc. | >| ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-angmar!tmetro@nosc.mil Newton, MA | >| UUCP: [ihnp4 sdcsvax nosc]!crash!pnet01!pro%angmar!tmetro | >|_Alternate: tmetro@lynx.northeastern.edu__________________________________| > "I think I was kidding" - Reagan neighbor@csd4.milw.wisc.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ | arpanet: neighbor@csd4.milw.wisc.edu | | UUCP: ihnp4!uwmcsd1!csd4!neighbor | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
whitney@think.COM (David Whitney) (08/09/88)
In article <memo.41162@lynx.northeastern.edu> tmetro@lynx.northeastern.EDU writes: > > David Whitney <pnet01!crash!think.com!whitney> writes: >> Just posted the latest Z-Link. Keep those suggestions coming! >After seeing this and knowing that there are at least three telecom program >developers out there reading Info-Apple I thought I would add my thoughts on >the subject. > >> Here are the features I'm looking for: >...and I would also like to see: > >> -Really good VT100 emulation >> -Ascii, xmodem, ymodem, zmodem file transfer >In particular I'd like to see AE Pro compatable Xmodem, Ymodem batch, Kermit >Binary II (maybe even BLU style with squeezing) and possibly Morgan Davis' >Xmodem-4K. Z-Link does vt100, quite well I'm told. Z-Link does x/y/ybatch xfer as well as ProDOS AE Pro xmodem. Zmodem maybe, if I ever have a whole lot of time. Kermit real soon, and Binary II right after. Both of those will initially be "bare bones," but will slowly advance. I've been warned by an intensive modem user that the 4k packet is a dead end. Better to work on Zmodem or other streaming protocol. >> -Easy-to-enter commands >I like the format that AE uses. A prompt that can be brought up at any time I modelled the command interface after an IBM program called Q-MODEM. I find it much easier to deal with, as one key-press is simpler than even just 3 or 2. >> -macros >Of the programs I've tried: ProTerm, Point-To-Point, CommWorks, TIC, and >Zlink none have I really tried out the macros on. All were lacking features >... >language. One particular feature I'd like to see in a macro language is better >loops, simple math (for controlling loops), and variables (starting to sound >more and more like a language - eh?). You should give the other program more time. The macro capabilities in Z-Link were designed by Dave Lyons, and are, what I feel, the easiest to deal with second to ProTERM (which requires no hard work on the users part). Z-Link allows you to say "this key-combo will result in the phantom-typing of these keys:..." Absolutely anything you can type to Z-Link can be put into a macro. I've just completed the most important part: a "wait for string from modem" feature. Now, I figure you can do just about anything. As for variables and math and loops, well, I'm not up to writing a language (yet). >> -Ability to execute ProDOS commands >A simple shell for ProDOS that could be entered/exited while online would be >ideal. Also the option of entering a single ProDOS command without having >to go to the shell (i.e. like many MS-DOS programs' shell feature) would be >nice. Z-Link should have that soon. It's lower on my priority list, but it will get done. >> -Ability to run under DOS 3.3 or ProDOS or at least save files under either >> system Forget it. I haven't had to deal with 3.3 for 3 years at least, and I have no plans for dealing with it. If you want a file in 3.3, use another program to move it from ProDOS over to dos 3.3. >> And of course all the normal modem pgm stuff, like sending breaks, a copy >> buffer, auto linefeed selection, etc. >I'd also like to see scrollback and a full screen editor. I would be >interested to see a telecom program that incorporated FredWriter (or a similar >editor) as the copy buffer editor. Auto-linefeed selection? Thats new to me. BREAK is buggy, but I'll fix it - otherwise it's really there. Copy buffer, save buffer, view buffer or file are there. auto LF, and other minor neatos are there too. >The ability to send a disk and/or use DDD/PBH format packing would be useful. It's an interesting idea, but as the world heads for 800k and larger disks, it will become impractical. There are disk-to-file programs, and they can prep things for you. >Easy directory traversal would be a definite plus. AE is probably the worst >program for dealing with ProDOS directories. Under certain conditions with AE >there is no way to find out the volume name of a floppy disk without exiting >the program. It lacks any sort of an 'online' command. Right now, the traversal in Z-Link is poor, but I plan on slowly getting some- thing like the Standard File interface running. It very intuitive, so I don't see how anyone can grip about it. >> * Views and prints TXT and APW files >An APW option wouldn't hurt, but not necessary. If AppleWorks was designed >properly it would have been alot easier to import/export text files to it. APW SRC files *are* text files! If you mean the object files, forget it. The program that does that is supplied with APW (it's not small, either). >> you can't access /RAM (it uses 44K for a copy/edit buffer and the rest for >> scrollback, up to your full capacity, whether you like it or not :-(). >Obviously all of this is going to take alot of memory. It should certainly >use up 128K, if needed, for all the features, but it shouldn't go beyond >that (for editing or scrollback) unless the user configures it to. Z-Link creates a file on the /RAM disk, and slowly eats the ram as the capture buffer fills. Otherwise, I don't scarf any memory. >To recap the major features that I'd like to see: > o Powerful macros (at least as good as AE's) > o Scrollback > o Full screen editor > o No "smart" modem control > o Protocols: Xmodem(AE), Ymodem, Kermit, Binary II formatting. > o VT100 emulation Except for #2 and #3 (which Z-Link will hurt fro some time), Z-Link supplies what you want. Binary II will be by soon (hopefully before Sept.). David Whitney, MIT '90 DISCLAIMER: Nobody knows what I'm up {out there}!harvard!think!whitney to. Don't blame them for my actions whitney@think.com nor me for theirs. ^^^^^ will be changing before 1989 is here. Don't depend on it after 1/1/89.