oliver@thelink.UUCP (Joel Sumner) (09/10/88)
!crash!pro-exchange!rich writes... >Doug Gwyn, in response to the following: > >>If not, then why? What's the big deal. Aren't we entitled to the most >>current version of the System Disk for our own Apple Computer? > > -- writes: > >>You're entitled to what you pay for, not to free maintenance and >>support into the indefinite future. I don't think $18 is much >>at all for an entire new release of an operating system. >Thanks, Doug... somebody needed to say that again! Too many people think >that after they've gotten their system (for the lowest possible price), >they are _entitled_ to perpetual free service, support, and software upgrades! Yes, you may be right but I must disagree with you on one point... I have heard continuous stories about how bugs have popped up in the IIgs Tools.. If indeed the System Disk 3.2 does contain toolset fixes, it should be freely distributed along with all of the other toolsets that are supposed to come with the computer.. Now if they want to package new versions of ProDos and the Finder with it, that is fine.. I see no really reason why Apple should be obligated to give us that.. (I hate to use this comparison but I will).. MS-DOS upgrades are hardly free so we should consider ourselves lucky to get updates like that... Now.. There is one bit of history that I may have just misunderstood but if I recall, a national magazine (A+ I think) said 'If you want the most recent version of the MAC Finder, just take a blank disk to a computer store and get it from them' [not verbatim.. just the general idea of it].. Now that the Mac System is up to version 6.2 or whatever.. Are they still giving all of those free updates? Did they ever? If so, I think this is another one of those 'Apple only Cares about the MAC' flames.. If I am wrong, please inform me (not flame me). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |oliver@thelink.UUCP |AT&T (219) 291-8343| GEnie K.SUMNER [Joel] | | ( Joel Sumner ) |----------------------------------------------------| |USnail 1505 Sheffield Ct. | A technological advance is nothing more than | | South Bend, IN 46614| a machine that it currently unsupported - Me | ! Internet : iuvax!ndmath!thelink!oliver ----------------------------------!
jib@prism.TMC.COM (09/12/88)
RE: System 3.2 Upgrades, The MAC, etc.
I downloaded System 3.2 from Genie yesterday. It took about 2 hours at
1200 baud -- and therefore cost me $10.00. I certainly don't mind that
small expenditure, and Apple is providing the upgrade free -- the
downloading cost, (or the APDA charges) are for distribution.
The upgrade is certainly worth $10-$20. For all of you who say this is
a change in Apple's policies -- your memories are not long enough; DOS
3.3 cost $75 for the upgrade (although it did include a manual and two
ROM chips for the Apple II drive). PRODOS was not a free upgrade either.
The current System upgrade policy for the MAC is 2 upgrades per year via
dealers at $50 each. The same upgrades can be downloaded (free except for
connect time) and are available via APDA.
By the way, I have seen no official notice that System 3.2 will NOT be made
available free (if you bring in a disk) via dealers -- just a lot of rumors
from "reliable" sources. My dealer is expecting to get it, although I
decided not to wait.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Block jib@prism.TMC.COM
{mit-eddie, pyramid, harvard!wjh12, cca, datacube}!mirror!prism!jib
Matthew Bender Inc, 11 Penn Plaza, NY, NY 10001 (212) 216-8018shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (09/13/88)
oliver@thelink.UUCP (Joel Sumner) writes: >If indeed the System Disk 3.2 does contain toolset fixes, it should be freely >distributed along with all of the other toolsets that are supposed to come >with the computer.. Now if they want to package new versions of ProDos and >the Finder with it, that is fine.. I see no really reason why Apple should be >obligated to give us that.. (I hate to use this comparison but I will).. >MS-DOS upgrades are hardly free so we should consider ourselves lucky to get >updates like that... > > Now.. There is one bit of history that I may have just misunderstood >but if I recall, a national magazine (A+ I think) said 'If you want the most >recent version of the MAC Finder, just take a blank disk to a computer store >and get it from them' [not verbatim.. just the general idea of it].. Now that >the Mac System is up to version 6.2 or whatever.. Are they still giving all >of those free updates? Did they ever? If so, I think this is another one of >those 'Apple only Cares about the MAC' flames.. If I am wrong, please inform >me (not flame me). I agree. We should be entitled to such bug fixes. It doesn't take much effort on Apple's part to supply the dealer with a disk which we can then copy onto our system disks when we take them in, which has been the case for previous updates of the Apple IIgs system disk. A $18 cost through APDA merely moves the effort into the APDA's hands, and they MUST charge or lose money by giving it out free (mailing costs, even if you send in your own disk, and copying time, etc.). It's MUCH better for us to get the update from the computer dealer, since they don't ever seem to mind, and in fact are quite helpful (in my experience) in that area. One possibility is that with the documentation update (which they would have to charge for or lose money, a la APDA [time and materials]) they could not go through the dealer. I could see this as being the cause. They may think the documentation important enough to refuse to distribute the disk without it. I have NO idea what the actual chances of that are... :-) I don't think they're supporting the Mac upgrades better than the Apple IIgs upgrades, though. As I said, in the past it's always been free. However, when the MultiFinder came out, that had to be purchased separately. But that's a different issue... UUCP: {rosevax, crash}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com
ralphw@ius3.ius.cs.cmu.edu (Ralph Hyre) (09/17/88)
In article <242000007@prism> jib@prism.TMC.COM writes: >... For all of you who say this is a change in Apple's policies -- your >memories are not long enough; DOS 3.3 cost $75 for the upgrade (although it >did include a manual and two ROM chips for the Apple II drive). As I recall, some customers got it for free, when Apple went from 13 to 16 sector disks and a new Pascal 1.1? came out. I think Pascal owners (and some other customers) got their PROMS on the Disk ][ controller card replaced for free. Hard to support commercial software in both formats. >PRODOS was not a free upgrade either. True, although it did come on lots of applications sofware disks for free. Documentation has always costed money. I just wish I couls still buy the original big red Apple book. They'll never get my ][+ hardware reference away from me. >The current System upgrade policy for the MAC is 2 upgrades per year via >dealers at $50 each. At CMU, we seem to get it free at our computer store. Again, the documentation costs money. -- - Ralph W. Hyre, Jr. Internet: ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu Phone:(412)268-{2847,3275} CMU-{BUGS,DARK} Amateur Packet Radio: N3FGW@W2XO, or c/o W3VC, CMU Radio Club, Pittsburgh, PA