dr@skivs.UUCP (David Robins) (10/21/88)
In article <Oct.19.17.56.04.1988.27523@elbereth.rutgers.edu> joseph@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Seymour Joseph) writes: > I am just settling in with my //GS and am discovering that GS/OS is >a mixed blessing for now. In spite of Apple's statements that GS/OS ... >Activision (now MediaGenic) claims that updates for registered users >will be coming "in a month or so." It is the "or so" that worries me. >Since I own all five of these, if there is a charge levied for the >upgrade I am going to be quite angry (and poor). This is a problem I have with upgrades. When Apple changes the operating system, the software companies have to fix their products to accommodate the change. Can they be expected to also foot the bill for mailing out new disks to users, when their product worked just fine (not enough bugs to warrant an update) under the operating system that existed when the software was written and marketed? After all, Apple has been changing operating systems faster than most users can keep up with them. They have released ProDOS 8 v1.4, v1.5, v1.6, v1.8, System Disk 1.x, System Disk 3.1, System Disk 3.2, System Disk 4.0 [GS/OS] all within the past 1 year or so. Therefore, I can see the company paying for fixes to a faulty product when updates are available. I think probably the user should foot the bill (hopefully small) for UPGRADES to products that operate under new operating systems. Otherwise, software companies may not write as much software; they will worry that each new OS may bankrupt them if they are expected to upgrade everyone for free. Fair is fair. Comments? No flames, please. -dave -- David Robins, M.D. (ophthalmologist / electronics engineer) Smith-Kettlewell Eye Research Institute, 2232 Webster St, San Francisco CA 94115 415/561-1705 (voice) {ucbvax,ihnp4,bellcore,lll-crg,lll-lcc}!pacbell!ski!dr The opinions expressed herein do not reflect the opinion of the Institute!
jw009@unocss.UUCP (Mike McMahon) (10/22/88)
From article <2702@skivs.UUCP>, by dr@skivs.UUCP (David Robins): > In article <Oct.19.17.56.04.1988.27523@elbereth.rutgers.edu> joseph@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Seymour Joseph) writes: >>Since I own all five of these, if there is a charge levied for the >>upgrade I am going to be quite angry (and poor). > > This is a problem I have with upgrades. When Apple changes the > operating system, the software companies have to fix their products to > accommodate the change. Can they be expected to also foot the bill I was under the impression that Apple has mandated certain standards, and that if a developer conforms to the standard he is in no danger of having problems with later releases. There may be exceptions but, by and large, there is no reason to throw the standards out the window. PLEASE...correct me me if I am blatantly incorrect. Incidentally, Apple ought to be congratulated for being organized enough to make the standards work. It had to have been quite an effort to coordinate all the toolsets, interface guidelines, etc...the Toolbox Reference is HUGE, and quite impressive besides. > > Therefore, I can see the company paying for fixes to a faulty product > when updates are available. I think probably the user should foot the > bill (hopefully small) for UPGRADES to products that operate under new If the program is FAULTY (i.e. breaks because of something the developer did outside Apple's standards) the developer should foot the bill. Period. A nominal fee for most UPGRADES isn't out of line ($5-$15 is fine, but if developers would be willing to charge only for the disk--wow!); however, if more developers would adopt a method that is convenient to both their company and to the end users, a lot of problems involving costs could be avoided. For example, use the extensive networks that have been built to distribute up- grades to registered users. GEnie, CompuServe, or even the InterNet would work just fine. Several people do this already, I think...Glen Bredon among them. Dave Lyons makes good use of the facilities as well. (By the way, Dave, thanks for staying on top of everything; Keith can certainly use the assistance when things get congested!) That approach only works well for "diffs" in most cases--offloading an entire 800k program onto a network could be problematic. Maybe make them available for anonymous FTP to registered users? > David Robins, M.D. (ophthalmologist / electronics engineer) --Mike
joseph@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Seymour Joseph) (10/22/88)
About upgrades. I dont mind paying a $5-10 handling charge for an updated diskette. I understand that the publishing company is taking the heat for Apple's actions. Its just that I own 5 of these and if the upgrade price is severe ($50...) I will be poor. Some companies are great. The learning company for instance. When I called them to ask about updating my //e Rocky's Boots to the //GS verison, they just verified that I owned it (while I was on the phone) and sent me a new 3.5" //GS version for free. I had it in less than a week. On the other hand. The latest USI upgrade for Ascii Express Moustalk was very expensive ($25-30), was mostly bug fixes with a few features added and consisted of only a diskette and three xeroxed pages. Not even a new manual! They cashed the check immediately and didn't send anything for two and a half months. Finally I got a disk that wouldn't boot. THEY MADE ME SEND IT BACK AGAIN BEFORE THEY WOULD SEND ME A REPAIRED ONE! It ended up taking three months for the whole upgrade and I am very soured on USI. Mediagenic was seeded with versions of GS/OS much prior to its announcment to the general public and should have been closer to having working products by Sept. 19 when it was announced. Here it is a month later and they still don't work. I bought them after the release of GS/OS. There was no sticker on the box, no postcard inside that said "don't worry, were fixing it as fast as we can", nothing. I understand the costs involved. I don't balk at reasonable upgrades for reasonable prices. I have just been gouged a few times and am overly paranoid. In the meantime I will just wait, and wait.... Seymour
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn ) (10/23/88)
In article <2702@skivs.UUCP> dr@skivs.UUCP (David Robins) writes: >This is a problem I have with upgrades. When Apple changes the >operating system, the software companies have to fix their products to >accommodate the change. Can they be expected to also foot the bill >for mailing out new disks to users, when their product worked just >fine (not enough bugs to warrant an update) under the operating system >that existed when the software was written and marketed? I have no sympathy with this argument. The vast majority of breakage appears to be due to the application software developers NOT FOLLOWING THE PUBLISHED RULES when they wrote their code. Apple has been fairly careful to make new releases upward-compatible for products that followed the rules. (They even have in the past accommodated some important software that had violated the rules.) When the fault is in the application product, it is only fair for the application product developer/marketer to bear the cost of remedying the defect. If they make the customer pay for their mistakes, they deserve to lose their customers.
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (10/23/88)
In article <455@unocss.UUCP> jw009@unocss.UUCP (Mike McMahon) writes: >For >example, use the extensive networks that have been built to distribute up- >grades to registered users. GEnie, CompuServe, or even the InterNet would >work just fine. Several people do this already, I think...Glen Bredon among >them. Dave Lyons makes good use of the facilities as well. (By the way, >Dave, thanks for staying on top of everything; Keith can certainly use the >assistance when things get congested!) I'll second that emotion! There are so many questions, and so little time. It's nice to see the manu people in the world who are willing to take the time to help others. However, I don't want to take the view that Dave Lyons and all the others who answer questions on the net are there to help ME. I'd rather like to think that I am here to help them. (Not that Dave really needs it! He is a Certified Developer that talks with Apple II DTS a lot -- usually pointing out bugs to us...) Keith Rollin UUCP: amdahl\ Developer Technical Support pyramid!sun !apple!keith Apple Computer decwrl/ BITNET: keith%apple.com@relay.cs.net "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"