scott@geowhiz.UUCP (Scott Kempf) (10/26/88)
In article <8810251607.aa27323@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") writes: >>Date: Mon, 24 Oct 88 21:11:31 GMT >>From: Scott Kempf <geowhiz!scott@SPEEDY.CS.WISC.EDU> >>Scott Kempf I've got type-ahead. I'll use this mouse when I can mouse-ahead. > >Hmmm...I suppose you have a //e or //c. On the Mac and the IIgs >(when running IIgs software rather than //e software), you *can* >mouse-ahead. Assuming you know where an icon is about to appear, or >where the menu item you want is located, or where a button in a >dialog is going to appear, or whatever. The Event Manager sees >things like keypresses and mouse clicks and stores them, along with >the mouse position and the time in the "event queue" for the >application to process when it's good and ready. If this is true then the software we have for the our Mac II's either clears the event queue or shuts of the interupts to the event manager. Our SUNs computers have queue mouse commands, but the file system is not mouse driven, so you really do not need the mouse very often. What I want to know is why didn't Apple include a mouse with the //e to //gs upgrade? I bought an upgrade instead of a new gs (a bad move) and I have yet to buy a mouse (I have been waiting for an optical ADB mouse). Software the forces you to use a mouse is really a pain. I recently bought a RAM card and it came with some nice cashe software, but when I when installed the cashe I discovered that the only way I could configure it was with a mouse. They could have saved time and money if they had designed a simple keyboard interface rather that a complex mouse only version. I also bought WordPerfect //gs. The first version (ported from the //e) had no mouse control and did not take advantage of many features. The new version is better. Full pull down menus and (for people like me) you can assign any function to an Apple-key or Option-key. Only one problem: You need a mouse to assign them. Mice are great if you don't know how to use a program, however if you use a program regularly, mice get in the way. If you touch type reaching over and using the mouce can be a pain. I can type Apple-U to start underlining without slowing down. Sure the first few times I may have to look and see what key to press to get underlining, but I takes quite a while to grab the mouse, pull down a menu, find underlining, and return to the keyboard. Learning curves: Keyboard (commandline): Mouse only: ^ | | | | __/ | P | __/ | _________ o | __/ | ____/ w | __/ |___/ e | __/ | r |/_______________ |__________________ Time -> Time -> The best solution is to provide _both_. Assign a key to all common menu options. Most Mac software tries to do this, but I still keep running into programs that do not even bother to assign Option-Q to quit. >--David A. Lyons bitnet: awcttypa@uiamvs > DAL Systems CompuServe: 72177,3233 > P.O. Box 287 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2 > North Liberty, IA 52317 AppleLinkPE: Dave Lyons _______________________________________________________________________________ Scott Kempf (not Verney Green or and other color of Verney) It was long ago and it was far away and it was so much better than it is today. MAIL: 1302 Rutledge St., Madison, WI 53703 PHONE: (608) 255-6205 (home) UUCP: {seismo, topaz, harvard, ihnp4}!uwvax!geowhiz!scott ARPA: scott%geowhiz.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu PHONE: (608) 262-6154 (work)
rupp@cod.NOSC.MIL (William L. Rupp) (10/27/88)
Well, may I lodge a counter argument in the mouse vs keyboard debate. Actually, I think I have before, but what the heck. Anyway, I still think the anti-mouse protests are just that; anti-mouse. Not, "they're okay sometimes," or "mice are fine if you are just learning", or similar damnation by faint praise, but plain, flat-out mouse-phobia. I have heard all the arguments, and am unimpressed. Sure, I would like to add some sort of shell to my Mac or my IIGS that would enable me to do some of the nice things that UNIX allows, but a full-blown command line interface is not necessary. What do you think dialog boxes are for? They are not *monolog* boxes; two way communication with the system is understood. But the point I would like to make, and I realize that it enters the area of personal preference, is that I cannot see why people are upset about going from the keyboard to a mouse. On the contrary, I am struck often by my annoyance at having to go from the mouse to the keyboard! I simply can't be the only person in microcomputing who makes typing mistakes when entering characters via keyboard. Think of the many times you have had to retype commands because of typing mistakes. A single mouse click, even a series of several clicks, is a lot easier than typing several words consisting of perhaps 10, 12, or even more keystrokes. No, you cannot dispense with the keyboard. But even a modest savings in keystrokes extrapolated over time adds up to a savings in effort and frustration. Furthermore, I think there are many functions for which the mouse is more appropriate under *any* circumstances. Looking into the future, we are likely to see direct human/computer interfaces (Have you read THE PEACE WAR and MAROONED IN REALTIME by Vernor Vinge?). When users see that sort of thing, nobody is going to say, "Yes, but why have they *forced* us to use our minds as input devices; I want a keyboard interface!" Or *will* they? Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------ As usual, I speak for myself alone. Generally there is no waiting list of people wanting to take half the blame. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
taro@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Taro Nobusawa) (10/28/88)
In article <1280@cod.NOSC.MIL> rupp@cod.nosc.mil.UUCP (William L. Rupp) writes: >Well, may I lodge a counter argument in the mouse vs keyboard debate. Actually, >I think I have before, but what the heck. Anyway, I still think the anti-mouse >protests are just that; anti-mouse. Not, "they're okay sometimes," ... >But the point I would like to make, and I realize that it enters the area of [..many good points..] Mouse is great for a lot of stuff, it's much more intuiative and is more efficient for many purposes. I also like keyboard equivalents, it drives me up the wall when a program doesn't have command-Q to quit. I think word processors show the use of both types of input devices. Needless to say, the keyboard is still needed for input of text, but the mouse is nice for large block editing. having to switch from keyboard to mouse is a minor inconvenience, who knows, maybe someone will invent a foot mouse for those organists out there. >Looking into the future, we are likely to see direct human/computer interfaces >(Have you read THE PEACE WAR and MAROONED IN REALTIME by Vernor Vinge?). When >users see that sort of thing, nobody is going to say, "Yes, but why have >they *forced* us to use our minds as input devices; I want a keyboard >interface!" >Or *will* they? Brings to mind Scotty's quotte from STIV "A keyboard! 'tis quaint!" or something to that effect. poi boi -- "Mad as a hen wetter...goodbye and good day. THPPT" -Opus Taro Nobusawa taro@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu taro@uhccux.BITNET Compu$erve 71071,322 {ihnp4,uunet,ucbvax}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!taro