AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") (10/24/88)
>From: unknown@ucscb (The Unknown User) >Subject: Re: advantages of AppleLink--PE >ProTERM does that last point you made...I'd never heard of a terminal >program doing automatic SCROLLBACK [...] before ProTERM...Even if >there were other programs that did it, I bet they weren't as easy as >ProTERM. I haven't used ProTERM, but I've heard about its scrollback buffer and it certainly sounds useful. Note the difference between that and what I said about ALPE: You can still *see* the reply you're writing even while you're review part of the note you're replying to. There are two separate boxes inside your window, one for each note, and you switch between them with TAB; they scroll separately. Unfortunately, it only works that way for post-office messages (personal mail) right now. I hope they'll add that for regular message-board messages. >Date: Sun, 23 Oct 88 21:43:04 GMT >From: Doug Gwyn <adm!smoke!gwyn@NYU.EDU> >Subject: AppleLink PE woes >When I first joined AppleLink PE, I saw a "new version of AppleLink" >to download. Supposedly when run it would copy your old working >disk to a new one, applying updates in the process. (Why such a >complicated scheme is considered necessary I don't know -- perhaps >some form of copy protection.) There is no copy protection on the disk, but it does create a new password for you each time you sign on. So it needs to copy that info off of the old disk when you download an update. What version was this? I downloaded about three different updates and didn't have trouble. >[...] the "newer" version (which did have a higher version number) >would simply keep asking me to insert the system disk. The prefix has to be set to the directory you're running it from, or it doesn't work. >Of course all AppleLink PE users know how bad the menu >operation is. MouseTalk gets it right; why not AppleLink? Bad in what way? Doesn't follow the conventions you're used to after using pull-down menus on a Mac or a GS program that uses the Menu Manager, but it works just fine. I don't even find it annoying. On ALPE you consistently choose things by clicking on them (or hitting RETURN) when they are already hilighted. >Just now, I saw that ACU (AppleLink Conversion Utility) had been >made available. Again, I read and followed the instructions, then >downloaded a couple of ACU-uploaded files to try it out. Would >you believe that ACU.SYS16, no matter how run (including setting up >path prefix from within AppleLink then running ACU from the >AppleLink menu), starts off by looking (somewhere!) for "ACU files >on a disk". It probes all my drives. Why the hell the prefix is >ignored I don't know. I downloaded ACU and had no trouble making it work. As far as I remember, I followed the instructions. I was working with the 8-bit version of the thing; the 16-bit version just runs the 8-bit version anyway at present, so it doesn't matter which one you use. If you leave a message for Floyd Zink (screen name = AFL Floyd) I'm sure he can explain what was happening and solve your problem promptly. Floyd did *not* write the explanation of how to download and install the ACU files; if he had I'm sure it would have been much clearer. >Having given up on ACU, I thought I'd try BLU. Turns out the >downloaded files weren't even in Binary II format! Another >total waste of funds downloading this stuff. If ACU files were BLU format, you wouldn't need ACU. It's *not* just BLU with a new user interface; it's a new file format, more compact and ready to support extended files (files with resource forks) in the hopfully-not-too-distant future. >I don't know who is responsible for the AppleLink PE software, >but they have so far done an ATROCIOUS design job. --David A. Lyons bitnet: awcttypa@uiamvs DAL Systems CompuServe: 72177,3233 P.O. Box 287 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2 North Liberty, IA 52317 AppleLinkPE: Dave Lyons
bsherm@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Bob Sherman) (10/24/88)
in article <8810232346.aa16996@SMOKE.BRL.MIL>, AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") says: >>Subject: Re: advantages of AppleLink--PE > To respond to the replies so far received regarding my AppleLink - Personal Edition review: Yes, Delphi has been around for several years, and there I must agree, it never really took off.. At least in the Apple section.. I doubt they will include the ACU software on the AppleLink software disk, since as they warn you before you download it, there simply is not enough room on the 3.5 disk to hold it.. I don't know how that applies to the 5.25 disk version.. Compuserve most certainly WILL send you a monthly bill upon request if you meet their requirements. They have been doing so for me for over 5 years now. So does the Source. If you have a good credit record, and pay your bills promptly, this method of payment has no ill effect on their cash flow, in fact, it SAVES THEM MONEY in that they don't have to lose the percentage points that the credit card companies charge them for each deposit. (varies from 1 1/2 % to over 4 %). Genie does have the same policy, and it has cost them the accounts of many Users Groups across the country, since they as groups DO NOT have credit cards.. Is there any reason that we should not demand and receive what is accepted in the business world as good business policy? That being that a vendor sends you an invoice, you check it for errors, and if correct, pay it.. Does any business you know of give YOU access to it's bank accounts or assets? The forum leaders, and many beta testers have been on ALPE since the beginning of the year if not before, with many months of free access, there is no excuse that during this time they did not do their homework and housekeeping to build the libraries. The libraries were already there when they first publicly showed the product last May at Applefest, and yes, the hundreds of people that attended that show and signed up for FREE ALPE software NEVER received it. When I asked Anne Artmeier (one of the Apple folks in charge of ALPE) about that at Applefest in Sept. she shrugged her shoulders and said she had no idea what became of all of those cards that were filled out.. 20 people sitting in a room chatting for an hour?? gee, at $6 per hour per person that is $120 an hour. They just love ya all the way to the bank. That is found money for something that uses almost no cpu time, and requires no storage what so ever.. The forum leaders also love you when you do this, because it puts royalties in their pockets from each of those 20 folks that are chatting in the room, that is the reason they try to promote so many chats within their section.. The longer they keep you within their forum, the more they make. Flash messages may have their place to some users, but I find it awful disturbing when trying to read something, or download something and having unsolicited messages jumping across the screen.. possibly even from someone I don't even know. This feature IS available on the Source, WITHOUT having to use their special software. It works there with any terminal software, however they also offer you the option to turn it OFF whenever you desire, an option that as far as I know ALPE does not offer. I think Compuserve has a version of it also, but am not sure.. I account for hundreds of dollars of online time every month on services such as Dialog, Nexis, Vu/Text, QL Systems, Data-Star, and each and every one of them sends out monthly bills to most if not all of their customers. You get the bill, and you pay it, no muss, no fuss, But YOU have control over your money, not them. -- Internet -- bsherm%umbio@umigw.miami.edu UUCP -- {uunet!gould}!umbio!bsherm Miami's Big Apple 305-948-8000 1200 baud 24 hours 8 years online
bh1e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) (10/24/88)
I was online during the beta testing stage, so I'll give you a good reason that the libraries were not filled when you came online. There was a great deal of uploading and downloading over the summer. However, at one time, the libraries had to all be restarted so that the library format could be changed...there was a period of about one to two months in which no uploads were allowed so that testing could be carried out. Also, the forum leaders are NOT responsible for supplying software to the software libraries...the users are. Brendan Gallagher Hoar Carnegie Mellon University Mellon College of Science Pittsburgh, PA bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu
AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") (10/25/88)
>Date: Mon, 24 Oct 88 06:57:24 GMT >From: Bob Sherman <umigw!umbio!bsherm@HANDIES.UCAR.EDU> >Subject: Re: more AppleLink--PE >I doubt they will include the ACU software on the AppleLink software disk, >since as they warn you before you download it, there simply is not enough >room on the 3.5 disk to hold it.. I don't know how that applies to the 5.25 >disk version.. Hmmm...I will check into that. I'm running the 8-bit version (the one that normally comes on a 5.25 disk) on an (800K) 3.5 disk, so there's gobs of room to spare. When ACU was released, I downloaded it onto my 3.5 with no problem. >Compuserve most certainly WILL send you a monthly bill upon request if you >meet their requirements. [...] Thanks for that info--they don't make it at all obvious that billing is an option. (By the way, I've never had trouble with CheckFree billing on CompuServe, where they yank the $$$ right out of my checking account. You get about 2 weeks notice before the electronic transaction happens.) >The forum leaders, and many beta testers have been on ALPE since the >beginning of the year if not before, with many months of free access, >there is no excuse that during this time they did not do their homework >and housekeeping to build the libraries. The libraries were already there >when they first publicly showed the product last May at Applefest, I don't know why things were done how they were done, so don't interpret this as an excuse. For much of the beta-test time, the libraries were "frozen"--uploads were not allowed; or at least new uploads did not get released. Also they had decided long ago to develop and use ACU, and there was a mysterious (to me, anyway) delay between the time Floyd Zink finished it and the time it was released. >20 people sitting in a room chatting for an hour?? gee, at $6 per hour per >person that is $120 an hour. They just love ya all the way to the bank. I have no idea what their operating costs are, so I won't even try to look at it from that end. From the user's end, it may well be worth $6/hr to discuss things with various experts--authors of popular utilities, special guests from Apple or commercial software houses, etc. Of course, some users may prefer to download & read the transcripts rather than participate in the discussion, and you can always leave if it gets boring. And remember that you can read and write e-mail while still following the chat (the chat scrolls thru most of the screen and the post-office window doesn't cover all of it, so you can tell when new stuff scrolls into the chat--Apple-T toggles the post office window on and off, so you can catch up with the chat and go back to your mail). >Flash messages may have their place to some users, but I find it awful >disturbing when trying to read something, or download something and >having unsolicited messages jumping across the screen.. possibly even from >someone I don't even know. I've never heard of anybody complaining about getting flash messages from people they don't know. Most people aren't going to waste their $$$ sending messages at people who don't want to talk to them. (By the way, flash messages are deferred until an upload/download is finished.) >This feature IS available on the Source, WITHOUT having to use their >special software. It works there with any terminal software, however >they also offer you the option to turn it OFF whenever you desire, an >option that as far as I know ALPE does not offer. I also don't know of a way to turn it off, although I haven't asked (since I haven't wanted to). If the Source can let you get real-time messages *without* disturbing what you already have on the screen, I don't see how it could work with any terminal software. > Internet -- bsherm%umbio@umigw.miami.edu > UUCP -- {uunet!gould}!umbio!bsherm > Miami's Big Apple 305-948-8000 1200 baud 24 hours 8 years online (Reminder--I hang around ALPE and answer questions in the Apple Development Forum. I don't get paid, but I do get some free time in exchange for it. --DAL) --David A. Lyons bitnet: awcttypa@uiamvs DAL Systems CompuServe: 72177,3233 P.O. Box 287 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2 North Liberty, IA 52317 AppleLinkPE: Dave Lyons
jib@prism.TMC.COM (10/28/88)
RE: AppleLink PE
I have only used Applelink for about 4 hours over the last 2 weeks since
my *FREE* software arrived, so I have only preliminary impressions. I
have been using GENIE heavily for the last 2 months, have belonged to
Compuserve for over 3 years, although I only use it infrequently.
The following are obviously just my opinions:
(1) The Applelink free software promised at the May Applefest WAS
distributed. I filled out a card at Applefest, and brought back 2 extras.
I filled out one and mailed a month and a half later since I had heard
nothing -- I gave the other to a friend.
I received 2 copies of the software and my friend received a copy -- all
in the second week of October -- late, but hardly never.
(2) From a human-engineering point of view the AppleLink interface is very
user-friendly (for a computer-naive user). My wife would never bother to
try and learn the protocols for GENIE, COmpuserve, etc., but finds
AppleLink easy to use (although she still has little interest in
it ;-).
My wife is an intelligent, but not-interested-in-technology person.
(3) The ALPE libraries and forums are still sparce, but it takes time.
(4) I find the delays between messages while the buffers are filling quite
annoying, but the windows do make reading easier.
(5) There is no good way (that I have found) to read all new messages in
an entire forum, or selected folders (as opposed to one). This is a major
shortcoming.
(6) I had no problems downloading ACU nor using it on my GS (no hard disk,
however).
(7) I find their billing method perfectly reasonable. Genie's is the
same, and neither Compuserve nor the SOurce (to which I no longer belong)
ever offered me the option of receiving a bill. Compuserve was willing to
debit my checking account, but I prefer a credit card.
(8) I have found the forum leaders on ALPE very friendly and helpful
although sometimes not fully knowledgable (but who is?)
(9) At this point, I still prefer Genie over the others, but that is
certainly subject to change as ALPE grows.
(10) Economically, ALPE may have a hard time getting renewals if they
really charge a $35 renewal fee. I do like the fact that they do not
charge a premium for 2400 baud; however for most uses I do not find ALPE
at 2400 baud as fast as Genie at 1200. (I have not done enough
downloading to compare).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Block jib@prism.TMC.COM
{mit-eddie, pyramid, harvard!wjh12, xait, datacube}!mirror!prism!jib
Matthew Bender Inc, 11 Penn Plaza, NY, NY 10001 (212) 216-8018STEIN@UCONNVM.BITNET (Alan Stein) (10/31/88)
1. If AppleLink at 2400 baud is slower than GEnie at 1200 baud, then
that's a problem. I find GEnie at 1200 baud slower than CompuServe
at 300 baud.
2. I agree that a $35 renewal fee is another problem. I never joined
the Source because I didn't want to have to pay even if I didn't use it.
I like Prodigy's cost system the best -- at least if I were to stick to
one system. However, since it's IBM only, it's also worthless to me.
Alan H. Stein Department of Mathematics
The University of Connecticut at Waterbury
Internet: stein%uconnvm.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu
BITNET: STEIN@UCONNVM
UUCP: {rutgers psuvax1 ucbvax & in Europe mcvax} !UCONNVM.BITNET!STEIN
Compu$erve: 71545,1500 Genie: ah.stein