GUIDO@FSU.BITNET (---------the sacred personified---------) (11/02/88)
ok, this will most likely be either ignored or start a flame to end all flames, but explain to me why I can go into a software store and count the number of IIgs specific titles on hands and toes(excluding educational software which ceased being usefull after I left high-school) and yet, my roommate who has an atari ST has racks upon racks of some of the best software I have ever seen. my meager library is contains nothing I could ever 'show off' or for that matter, even be interested in...srure, I have plenty of thinking games and downloaded stuff, but the best movement oreinted software I have is Thexder. I am disgusted, I bought this machine because my II+ finally died and I was assured that pounds of new software would come out for it 'this christmas' and so far I have been waiting for about a year. (note: 'this christmas refers to xmas 87) I have not learned enough about 65816 programming to do my own yet, and TML pascal is starting to be an option, but I have no idea where to start. I bought this machine becuase of it's amazing graphics and superb sound capabilities, but so far, it seems to me that I should have bought an ST. There are very few things that I can do on my GS that cannot be done on an ST. the reverse is not true at all. I am sure, of course, that much of the problem lies in the slow(is 2.5mhz slow?) chip speed, but so what. I saw some pretty amazing stuff on the old II+ before it entered the silicon graveyard...stuff that was not as graphically good, but the ideas could have been expanded to the GS and made even better...seems to me that all the good software programmers have gone to other avenues. I guess now I can have fun figuring out GS/OS for a while and then...who knows what other potentially boring bit of system software will come out. It seems to me that the developers spend more time writing system stuff for the third-party developers to use than they do explaining to the common user how to use it...case in point, try reading Apple IIgs toolbox references volumes I and II and see if they make any sense to you...I don't have a comp/sci degree yet but I assume that one day when I do I will be able to comprehend much of what is contained in these massive volumes....till then, I get to program text-based applications etc. in TML pascal.(yet another company who is into cryptic manuals) zaphodian Beeblebrox "Intelligence is not a prerequisite for life"
c60c-3aw@web-2c.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) (11/03/88)
In article <881101231615609.AGBK@RAI.CC.FSU.EDU> GUIDO@FSU.BITNET (---------the sacred personified---------) writes: [stuff removed] >I bought this machine becuase of it's amazing graphics and superb sound >capabilities, but so far, it seems to me that I should have bought an >ST. There are very few things that I can do on my GS that cannot be done >on an ST. the reverse is not true at all. I am sure, of course, that much I'm still wondering what the //gs was supposed to compete with. Maybe it was just supposed to be the super educational computer for the '90s. The //e does just fine... >of the problem lies in the slow(is 2.5mhz slow?) chip speed, but so what. >I saw some pretty amazing stuff on the old II+ before it entered the >silicon graveyard...stuff that was not as graphically good, but the ideas >could have been expanded to the GS and made even better...seems to me that I have yet to see an arcade game that uses the normal hires screen, but is written in 65816 code and uses the //gs' sound capabilities. Such a game would be extremely fast and very fun to play... ever try F-15 Strike Eagle with the //gs accelerated? (center the joystick around 72,72 instead of 128,128). >zaphodian Beeblebrox >"Intelligence is not a prerequisite for life" -- fadden@zen.berkeley.edu [crashed] c60c-3aw@widow.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) "Zoom!"
shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (11/05/88)
GUIDO@FSU.BITNET (---------the sacred personified---------) writes: >ok, this will most likely be either ignored or start a flame to end all >flames, but explain to me why I can go into a software store and count >the number of IIgs specific titles on hands and toes(excluding educational >software which ceased being usefull after I left high-school) and yet, >my roommate who has an atari ST has racks upon racks of some of the best >software I have ever seen. my meager library is contains nothing I could Oh my. Well, you'll find that a lot of Amiga software was developed in C, and since Manx Software Systems and Lattice decided to put their efforts into Amiga C compilers, stuff has been ported from some micros to others faster than is currently possible with the //gs. There's an Aztec C compiler for the //e & //gs, although it runs in 8-bit mode only, and has bugs that Manx hasn't been interested in fixing. There's the APW C compiler for the //gs which is pretty good, only the slow linking and large binaries could be obstacles for some developers. However, TML Pascal is supposed to be quick and small(er), and there are some impressive compiled BASIC adaptations available. >oreinted software I have is Thexder. I am disgusted, I bought this >machine because my II+ finally died and I was assured that pounds of >new software would come out for it 'this christmas' and so far I have been >waiting for about a year. (note: 'this christmas refers to xmas 87) You were assured? You should know by now that dealers will say anything to make a quick buck. Don't trust them entirely. Use your own judgement and do some research instead of relying totally on their information. >I have not learned enough about 65816 programming to do my own yet, and >TML pascal is starting to be an option, but I have no idea where to start. The best way to break into 65816 programming, as far as I'm concerned, is by buying Byteworks' Orca/M assembler & development environment software. Follow their examples, buy a 65816 assembly programming book, and get copies of the Toolbox Reference manuals. A ProDOS 16 reference manual wouldn't hurt, either. TML Pascal will be easier and cheaper to get into... get their software and follow their examples, and you'll be up and running before you know it. >I bought this machine becuase of it's amazing graphics and superb sound >capabilities, but so far, it seems to me that I should have bought an >ST. There are very few things that I can do on my GS that cannot be done >on an ST. the reverse is not true at all. I am sure, of course, that much >of the problem lies in the slow(is 2.5mhz slow?) chip speed, but so what. I've heard that it's hard to become an ST guru. Don't be mislead by fancy demos! If you have friends that own an ST, judge their experience and abilities with the machine before deciding you'd have a better time with it. By the way, speed is indeed a factor these days, but you have to watch what you're getting for that speed. Some of the newer machines have to run faster because of the amazing overhead of the operating system and the user interface. A faster //gs would be nice (there are accelerator cards coming out RealSoonNow), but then you can run programs on it right now without speeding it up and adding 4-8 meg of memory. Cost is sometimes hidden in the "basic hardware requirements". >I saw some pretty amazing stuff on the old II+ before it entered the >silicon graveyard...stuff that was not as graphically good, but the ideas >could have been expanded to the GS and made even better...seems to me that >all the good software programmers have gone to other avenues. I guess now >I can have fun figuring out GS/OS for a while and then...who knows what >other potentially boring bit of system software will come out. It seems >to me that the developers spend more time writing system stuff for the >third-party developers to use than they do explaining to the common user There's a lot of development software out for the //gs, which is more than you can say for the older //'s. Developers are working on development software to get YOU developing faster and easier. In many different ways, too. Consider the latest word processor (although that might be an understatement), Workbench. It's a writer's tool, all the way through. There are the many programming languages appearing, plus all the programmer support through various Apple // magazines. Hey, I've been writing up a storm myself with my BBS. UUCP: {rosevax, crash}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com