shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (12/24/88)
kamath@reed.UUCP (Sean Kamath) writes: > >You know, I find it amazing that the new APDA is so hot on the // series. >Seems they really want to support us. > >Also interesting, the only advertisement in the entire catalog for anything >related at all the any of the Apple // series computers was an add for >CALL A.P.P.L.E magazine. True, most of the advertising is devoted to Macintosh products. >Sean Kamath > >I don't know about you, but this *REALLY* *PISSED* *ME* *OFF*. >I guess there's nothing worth selling for the Apple // series computers. >Or the advertisers are too smart to advertise in such a bogus catalog. Ahem. The APDAlog is full of Apple II software, from both Apple and third-party suppliers. There are four pages of Apple Computer, Inc. related prodcts and two pages of third-party products from such companies as Byteworks, TML, and Roger Wagner Publishing. If all you're looking at are the ads that APDA puts in the catalog to support production costs, then you're missing the point of the catalog. It's not a catalog of advertisements, it's a catalog of products available through APDA at reduced costs, which happens to have other advertisements in it. If you don't think any of the software listed in the catalog is worthwhile, then you're looking in the wrong catalog. After all, it IS the Apple Programmers and Developers Association. What did you expect, games? UUCP: {rosevax, crash}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com
kamath@reed.UUCP (Sean Kamath) (12/27/88)
In article <433@orbit.UUCP> shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) writes: >kamath@reed.UUCP (Sean Kamath) writes: >> >>I guess there's nothing worth selling for the Apple // series computers. >>Or the advertisers are too smart to advertise in such a bogus catalog. > >Ahem. The APDAlog is full of Apple II software, from both Apple and >third-party suppliers. There are four pages of Apple Computer, Inc. related >prodcts and two pages of third-party products from such companies as >Byteworks, TML, and Roger Wagner Publishing. Full is relative, my friend. >If all you're looking at are the ads that APDA puts in the catalog to support >production costs, then you're missing the point of the catalog. It's not a >catalog of advertisements, it's a catalog of products available through APDA >at reduced costs, which happens to have other advertisements in it. > >If you don't think any of the software listed in the catalog is worthwhile, >then you're looking in the wrong catalog. After all, it IS the Apple >Programmers and Developers Association. What did you expect, games? I don't want games, thank you. I only play two games currently, Shanghie, which I am modifying to make use a mouse, and Rescue Raiders. What I expect are useful items that are perhaps beta and maybe a little cheaper than mail order. Things that I can't get anywhere else. Things like the SCSI card tech ref that I got (I joined because I wanted that manual). Allow me to elucidate via example: There are: 33 pages of stuff orderable (the Catalog) ( 8 pages Apple //, 1 general interest, 24 pages mac) 2 pages index for the Catalog 23 pages of advertisements 7 pages of mac only articles 4 pages of article non-machine specific 9 misc pages of Tech-Alliance stuff, contents, etc, (78 pages (including covers) - 69) This isn't the most accurate, but it's about right. So, less than half the catalog is of what they are selling. I.e. 50% of what you get is advertisements for stuff for the mac. Only 8 pages of 78 are anything for the //! A little over 10%! Getting down to products they sell. Book 1: From Apple Computer Part 1: Apple GS products Section 1: GS Products Gee, the first two items are no longer available. There remains 6 items, among them toolbox ref update, debugger, and source sampler. Also, three system disk. Three! Section 2: MPW Cross development great, 7 products for people who own macs who write programs for the GS. Not exactly for your averages apple freak such as myself. I'm not about to shell out $360 (minus shipping) for these products, let alone the $$$$ for a mac. Section 3: APW 6 products. All reasonable is you have a GS and want to write in anything other than assembler. Section 4: Apple II/GS documents. 4 items, two distributed on Macintosh disks. More about that later. Part 2: Apple // products. Section 1: // products 2 items. a system disk and an assembler. (register disgust here) Section 2: General Products for the Apple // 4 useful items. end of Apple // stuff. The score: 29 items for the // line, though 9 can't be used with just a GS or // (i.e. 33%!). Part 3: Macintosh Products. Section 1: A/UX 3 items Section 2: MPW 22 items. Note the 1/3 page descriptions of three items. Section 3: MacApp 6 items. Section 4: SmallTalk 2 items. Section 5: System Software 5 items. Section 6: Supplemental Tools 3 items. Section 7: General Macintosh Documents. 11 items. Section 8: HyperCard 6 items. Section 9: Technical Notes 4 items (none on ProDOS disks. . .) Section 10: Networking and Data Communications 14 items. (note that 1 items is pretty much specific to the GS.) Sections 11: Peripherals 4 items. (note that 1 item can by of use for a GS programmer.) Section 12: Other Products 1 item, and of use to //'ers as well as mac'ers. End of Part 3. ye old curiosity shoppe part 1: Apple // 11 Items, some interesting stuff. ye old curiosity shoppe part 2: Macintosh 10 items. End of Book 1. The score so far: Apple // products: 42 products, 9 run on a mac only, 2 in mac sections, in 6 sections, 3 parts. Macintosh: 88 products, 12 sections, 2 parts. Both: 1 product, in mac section. Book 2: Third Party Software Part 1: Apple GS software 13 items, 2 basics, 4 ORCA, 4 TML (not including the Basic). Yes, it's interesting a useful, but there isn't a lot of it. Past 2: Apple // software Section 1: Apple // software 5 items, all ORCA, one reference to GS sections. Section 2: Utilities 1 item, copy ][ plus v. 8.2. THAT'S IT! Part 3: Macintosh Software Section 1: A/UX 6 items. Section 2: Mac Languages and Support 64 items. 64 items! Section 3: Macintosh utilities 23 items, though 1 is disk labels. There are 8 items of hardware, of which 2 can be used with a // series computer. Total so far: Apple // products: 61 products, 9 run on a mac only, 2 in mac sections, in 9 sections, 5 parts. Macintosh: 180 products, 15 sections, 3 parts. Both: 2 product, in mac sections. Book 3: Books Part 1: Technical Library (Addison-Wesley) Section 1: GS 7 items. Section 2: // 4 items. Section 3: Macintosh 11 items. Section 4: Other 5 items, for both more or less. Past 2: Other publishers Section 1: GS 8 items. Section 2: // 1 item, and another with a reference to the Old Curiosity Shoppe. Section 3: Macintosh 36 items. Section 4: General interest 16 items, about half of interest to the //e series. Final score: Apple // products: 81 products, 9 run on a mac only, 2 in mac sections, in 13 sections, 7 parts. Macintosh: 227 products, 17 sections, 5 parts. Both: 23 product, 2 in mac sections, the rest in general sections. In summary: of the 50% of the catalog that is devoted to the Catalog proper, there are about 331 items for sale. Of those, 227 are for the macintosh alone. That's about 69%! another 7% for things of both class. That leaves 24% of the total to Apple // specific stuff. So let's be generous. We'll leave in the 2.7% that'll run only on a mac, though it's "for" the GS. We'll even chuck in the 7% for both! That leaves us 31% of the Catalog, or about 15.5% of the whole catalog non-proper. I.e. I could have gotten the same value out of a 12 page catalog without a load of crappy advertisements, thank you! OK, So this is long. I'm really mad about this. And about the comment that all I want is games. You know nothing of me, and what I want out of my //e, let alone how much I program, and what I'm interested in. As for the original point of my post, I think it is still valid. Obviously, if advertisers feel that they can reach a large percentage of Macintosh programmers in the APDA catalog, they will advertise there. Also obvious is that Apple // companies don't feel they can reach a large percentage of Apple // series programmers, or they too would gulp the expense and advertise. I want more than just Copy][+ as a utility, thank you! I want a little more support for my //e than a note saying that unless my application makes use of the enhanced features of the GS that they won't carry it (a note found in one of the first APDAlogs.). Sean Kamath -- UUCP: {decvax allegra ucbcad ucbvax hplabs}!tektronix!reed!kamath CSNET: reed!kamath@Tektronix.CSNET || BITNET: kamath@reed.BITNET ARPA: kamath%reed.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu US Snail: 3934 SE Boise, Portland, OR 97202-3126 (I hate 4 line .sigs!)