mcgurrin@MITRE.ARPA (10/17/88)
I have also had the "hang" problem with Finder under GS/OS. I still have the super hires screen. The cursor (arrow) hangs frozen, I think after closing the windows on the screen (working from my memory here). I can't get into the CDA menu. It's happened with several applications, but upon reboot the applications work fine. I have the 3.5, 5.25, and SCSI drivers, along with the Imagewriter driver. The control panel is set to boot from 7 (SCSI). I have a 5.25 interface card in slot 6. Hope this helps someone identify the problem. I'll try and keep track of any other clues when it happens again.
AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") (01/29/89)
>Date: Thu, 26 Jan 89 15:41:22 HST >From: Tom Jenkins <tomj@PRO-PAC.CTS.COM> >Subject: GSOS and CMS60 questions... >I need some help on (I guess) the installation of the new GSOS... >First some background info -- Hardware I have: > >Apple IIgs (Apple 1MB Ramcard) with new ROM version 1.0 (bought Mar 87) If you really mean ROM 1.0, which is also known as ROM 00, you'll have to get the free upgrade. If your machine says "ROM 01" when you boot, you have ROM 2.0, and you're all set. >CMS 60MB hard-drive in slot 7 (two partitions - CMS1, CMS2) You neglected to mention what _card_ you're using in slot 7. If it's an Apple SCSI card, you'll need to have the Revision C ROM on the card, which is labeled "341-0437-A". >Apple 3.5 disk drive daisy chained to Apple 5.25 disk drive That doesn't work; you need to daisy chain the 5.25 onto the END of the chain; the 3.5 must be closer to the computer in the chain. >[...] I have been using the ProDos version 3.2 for several months and >have had really no problems with it. There's no such thing as ProDOS 3.2; you must mean System Disk 3.2, which had ProDOS 16 1.6 and [I think] ProDOS 8 1.5. >I recently received a copy of the new GSOS (I believe 4.0) and >attempted to install it. After many frustrating tries using the >built in installer, I decided to just simply "copy" over all the >files on both disks to the hard-drive (System.Disk disk to the >/CMS1). What went wrong when you did it with the installer? >I have some questions that I would appreciate any feedback on: > >o Do I need to re-initialize the hard-drive using the Adv.System.Utils? > Does the interleave (4:1, 2:1) make a difference on the Hard-drive? > Should I re-initialize it, then re-install all the files? If I do this > which interleave would be better? No, you don't need to re-initialize your had drive. There will be NO INTERLEAVE CHOICE presented to you if you try to format your hard drive, _except_ possibly if you are using a special driver designed for your drive (in your *:system:drivers folder). When you format a 3.5 drive, the APPLEDISK3.5 driver is the source of the interleave options. >o And what's this about partitioning? I assume that because I have /CMS1 > and /CMS2 (each 30MB) that I wouldn't need this, right? Correct--if your drive is already partitioned in hardware, there's no need for further partitioning. >o What is the function of the disk cache? I notice it's 32K in size. > Should I bang it up to a higher amount? Is my RAM disk affected? If > I increased it, and accidentally shut down the system before I wrote > back to the disk, would it lose some of the data? The disk cache stores copies in RAM of of important disk blocks--usually directory blocks and bitmap blocks. This speeds up disk access dramatically. Even if you set it to 0, there is still 16K used for the cache. Your RAMdisk is affected only because there will be less RAM available; I don't think the RAMdisk is cached (it would be pretty silly). When stuff is written to disk, it may also go to the cache, but under normal circumstances it _also_ goes onto disk; you don't increase the danger of not getting data written to your disk by using a cache. (There is a feature called a "session" that programs can turn on temporarily to suspend writing stuff to disk; when the session ends, it's written out in a nice efficient order.) >o Speaking of RAM disks, what would the best setting be? (I can't decide > on 0K, 256K, 512K or 1MB) It depends on how much of your RAM you can spare and how much stuff you want to put on your RAMdisk. >o Why can't I copy an old "Menu.Clock" (type $B6 file) from the 3.2 system > disk that I had (in the system startup folder), and have it run? (the > new GSOS hangs when I put this in the folder) Try to get a new version of Menu.Clock; at least one version causes problems with a _lot_ of programs. >o I noticed that on the 3.5 inch system disk, there is the running > thermometer while it loads. When I boot up the hard-drive, the > thermometer does not run (blank) until just before the finder comes up. > (total boot time about 25 secs after the hard-drive comes up to > speed) The thermometer is a feature of System Disk 4.0. The thermometer calibrates its speed to match your boot time if both of the following are true: your boot disk is NOT write-protected; you are booting into a 16-bit startup program, like the Finder, not a ProDOS 8 application. For the first boot after you add or remove desk accessories or other stuff that affects the boot time, the thermometer will be wrong. >o I now boot up into the Basic.Launcher (instead of the Finder because > it's faster), but why can't I click on "Quit" and have the machine go > back to the reboot screen? It cycles back around to the Launcer > again. You are booting into Launcher, _not_ BASIC.LAUNCHER. (BASIC.LAUNCHER is used when you double-click on a BASIC program icon in the Finder; it relays the name of the program from the Message Center, where the Finder put it, to BASIC.SYSTEM's startup buffer.) Under System Disk 4.0 there is no reboot screen. If you Quit from the application you booted into, the system ("GQUIT" actually, the part that handles quitting to other applications) does the same thing it did when you booted in the first place: it first looks for *:system:start (which is usually the Finder, but is the Launcher in your case); if it doesn't find that it looks for xxx.SYSTEM and xxx.SYS16 stuff in your boot disk's main directory. >o Should I have copied ALL the files from the second GSOS disk > (System.Tools) onto the hard-drive? Nope, not unless you have a whole _lot_ of hardware! You should use the Installer and install the files for the hardware you want to be able to use under GS/OS. >UUCP: {nosc, cacilj, sdcsvax, hplabs!hp-sdd, sun.COM} > ...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj >ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj@nosc.MIL >INET: tomj@pro-pac.CTS.COM - BITNET: pro-pac.UUCP!tomj@PSUVAX1 --David A. Lyons bitnet: awcttypa@uiamvs DAL Systems CompuServe: 72177,3233 P.O. Box 287 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2 North Liberty, IA 52317 AppleLinkPE: Dave Lyons
tsouth@pro-pac.cts.com (System Administrator) (01/30/89)
>Date: Saturday 28 Jan 89 11:15 PM CT >From: "David A. Lyons" <pnet01!crash!cunyvm.cuny.edu!AWCTTYPA%UIAMVS.BITNET> >Subject: GS/OS answers >>Date: Thu, 26 Jan 89 15:41:22 HST >>From: Tom Jenkins <tomj@PRO-PAC.CTS.COM> >>Subject: GSOS and CMS60 questions... > >>Apple IIgs (Apple 1MB Ramcard) with new ROM version 1.0 (bought Mar 87) >boot, you have ROM 2.0, and you're all set. He has the upgrade... >>CMS 60MB hard-drive in slot 7 (two partitions - CMS1, CMS2) >You neglected to mention what _card_ you're using in slot 7. If >it's an Apple SCSI card, you'll need to have the Revision C ROM on >the card, which is labeled "341-0437-A". He has the CMS SCSI card, which allows you to chain in either direction (unlike Apple's). What I don't understand is why there is no GS/OS driver for OTHER hard drive interfaces, especially when this company sells a _large_ amount of Apple II owners their hard drives. Anyone know anything about this? >>o Why can't I copy an old "Menu.Clock" (type $B6 file) from the 3.2 system >> disk that I had (in the system startup folder), and have it run? (the >> new GSOS hangs when I put this in the folder) >Try to get a new version of Menu.Clock; at least one version causes >problems with a _lot_ of programs. Got any sources for getting a new copy of this NDA? >>o I noticed that on the 3.5 inch system disk, there is the running >> thermometer while it loads. When I boot up the hard-drive, the >> thermometer does not run (blank) until just before the finder comes up. >> (total boot time about 25 secs after the hard-drive comes up to >> speed) >The thermometer is a feature of System Disk 4.0. The thermometer [...] >application. For the first boot after you add or remove desk >accessories or other stuff that affects the boot time, the >thermometer will be wrong. Be that as it may, the problem he is experiencing also shows up on my hard drive, and I did purchase GS/OS from my dealer. Using installer I have properly installed all files onto the boot partition, and still the thermometer does _not_ show up until one second before the finder pops up, leading one to believe that it doesn't run until the finder is run. Does this mean that the thermometer does not run on the System Disk until finder is run? Or is there something not kosher in the calculations because we are not using the Apple SCSI card? >> ...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj >--David A. Lyons bitnet: awcttypa@uiamvs Todd South -- UUCP: {nosc, cacilj, sdcsvax, hplabs!hp-sdd, sun.COM} ...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tsouth ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tsouth@nosc.MIL INET: tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM - BITNET: pro-pac.UUCP!tsouth@PSUVAX1
scott@claris.com (Scott Lindsey) (01/31/89)
From article <8901292316.AA17279@crash.cts.com>, by tsouth@pro-pac.cts.com (System Administrator): |>>o I noticed that on the 3.5 inch system disk, there is the running |>> thermometer while it loads. When I boot up the hard-drive, the |>> thermometer does not run (blank) until just before the finder comes up. |>> (total boot time about 25 secs after the hard-drive comes up to |>> speed) | |>The thermometer is a feature of System Disk 4.0. The thermometer | [...] |>application. For the first boot after you add or remove desk |>accessories or other stuff that affects the boot time, the |>thermometer will be wrong. | | Be that as it may, the problem he is experiencing also shows up on | my hard drive, and I did purchase GS/OS from my dealer. Using installer | I have properly installed all files onto the boot partition, and still | the thermometer does _not_ show up until one second before the finder | pops up, leading one to believe that it doesn't run until the finder | is run. Does this mean that the thermometer does not run on the | System Disk until finder is run? Or is there something not kosher in | the calculations because we are not using the Apple SCSI card? Ever since Hartford (GS/OS) was bootable from a CMS, I've witnessed the odd behaviour of the thermometer. This has been the case on both a 60Mb and a 20Mb drive. The actual drawing of the thermometer is done by a heartbeat task. I'd guess it has something to do with the fact that CMS's require a generated driver (the driver is not the same as the SCSI driver in the DRIVERS directory, but is generated on the fly). At any rate, this is not indicative of problems. It's just something you have to get used to. -- Scott Lindsey, wombat | UUCP: {ames,apple,portal,sun,voder}!claris!scott Product Development | Internet: scott@claris.com | AppleLink: LINDSEY1 Claris Corp. | Disclaimer: These are not the opinions of Claris, (415) 960-4070 | Apple, the author, or anyone else living or dead.
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (02/01/89)
In article <8519@claris.com> scott@claris.com (Scott Lindsey) writes: > >Ever since Hartford (GS/OS) was bootable from a CMS, I've witnessed the >odd behaviour of the thermometer. This has been the case on both a 60Mb >and a 20Mb drive. The actual drawing of the thermometer is done by >a heartbeat task. I'd guess it has something to do with the fact that >CMS's require a generated driver (the driver is not the same as the SCSI >driver in the DRIVERS directory, but is generated on the fly). At any >rate, this is not indicative of problems. It's just something you have >to get used to. > The problem has to do NOT with simply the fact that the CMS card uses a generated driver, but the fact that the firmware that the generated driver calls turns off interrupts. As far as we could tell, there was no way to change the CMS ROMs from software to fix this problem. Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. --- Developer Technical Support INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"
AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") (02/01/89)
>Date: Sun, 29 Jan 89 08:16:07 HST >From: System Administrator <tsouth@PRO-PAC.CTS.COM> >Subject: Re: GS/OS Answers >He has the CMS SCSI card, which allows you to chain in either >direction (unlike Apple's). I'm confused: What's the other direction, other than away from the SCSI card? >What I don't understand is why there is no GS/OS driver for OTHER >hard drive interfaces, especially when this company sells a _large_ >amount of Apple II owners their hard drives. Anyone know anything >about this? Easy: there are no special drivers for the 3rd-party SCSI cards because their manufacturers haven't written them yet. There isn't an _extreme_ need for them, although efficiency will presumably be improved by using a "loaded driver" instead of letting GS/OS use a "generated driver" that uses the 8-bit ProDOS interface on the card. (Efficiency of Apple's SCSI.DRIVER will also be improved in the future--right now we have only an "interim" driver that _works_ but isn't as fast as the real one will be.) >>Try to get a new version of Menu.Clock; at least one version causes >>problems with a _lot_ of programs. >Got any sources for getting a new copy of this NDA? Ask Claris; I don't know if they're selling Deskworks now or what. (StyleWare used to.) BTW, it isn't an NDA, is it? (NDAs show up under the Apple menu.) >[...] the thermometer does _not_ show up until one second before the >finder pops up, leading one to believe that it doesn't run until the >finder is run. Does this mean that the thermometer does not run on >the System Disk until finder is run? Or is there something not >kosher in the calculations because we are not using the Apple SCSI >card? No, the thermometer is driven by a 1/60-second interrupt routine, and it starts early in the boot when START.GS.OS is loaded. I believe your SCSI card is leaving interrupts disabled for a large fraction of the time during the boot. This is not a problem, except that it means the thermometer will do what it does rather than what it should. >Todd South >UUCP: {nosc, cacilj, sdcsvax, hplabs!hp-sdd, sun.COM} > ...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tsouth >ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tsouth@nosc.MIL >INET: tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM - BITNET: pro-pac.UUCP!tsouth@PSUVAX1 --David A. Lyons bitnet: awcttypa@uiamvs DAL Systems CompuServe: 72177,3233 P.O. Box 287 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2 North Liberty, IA 52317 AppleLinkPE: Dave Lyons