jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) (02/13/89)
There has been a lot of discussion about the //'s future and the lack of
obvious support for the machine.
I think one of the biggest reasons for this is not so much the machine's speed
but people's faith and software support. I waited a long time to move from a
//c to the gs, and I must admit that in the store running idiotic demos in
booths next to Macs, the GS looked pretty pathetic. Now that I have one to play
with, the truth comes out that it is much more capable than people will give
it. The gs is more unexploited than anything else.
The reasons for this are a) Apple does not support the //gs in universities,
a regular hotbed for computer creativity and shareware; b) pressure to use
the Mac interface as is instead of using the text screen, mouse text, or
a scaled down version of the window manager, all of which would move faster;
c) an incomplete OS, I am not impressed with GS/OS because it does not
recognize 5.25's, repeatedly crashes, and does not support Appletalk (I
believe I need System3.2 to get the Appletalk routines) i.e. GS/OS, and no
Prodos16 yet, properly addresses the dual nature of the gs, 8-bit and 16-bit.
To elaborate on the last point, GS/OS has great problems with my use of a
RamDisk, its Finder will not boot or recognize much of my software, it is
missing support for Appleshare and Appletalk (I need 3.2 for that), and
seems very combersome and restrictive.
This makes programming for the GS difficult and risky. The old idea of hacking
something out under the relatively relaxed guidelines of Prodos8 becomes
impossible, while there are too many restrictions to do anything interesting;
such as toying w/ a multitasking hack. The Macintosh allows a great amount of
freedom within the borders of its window manager for hacks like MacFish,
Alternate Beeps, background rasters, menu clocks, etc.
However, there is still MANY things the gs can do, and many areas to explore.
The GS must prove that it is capable and useful, and this can be achieved
in a large part be AppleTalk. The gs should be able to be plugged into Phone
Net and immediately be able to access Printers and Servers like the Mac can.
A project I am working on is a GS version of Stanford's Mac/IP which allows
Telnetting and FTP'ing to remote sites over Appletalk networks equipped with
Kinetics Ethernet converters.
The gist of this is the original Apple made good because hackers/programmers
wrote good software for it and raised the performance standards. This must be
repeated for the GS. It will help when ORCA/C comes out; lower APDA prices
would help too. Apple's // developers should set their sights much higher than
they are. But if they don't (Apple traditionally does not write the best
software for its machines) than interested hobbiests should fill the gap.
Capt. Albatross
jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu
disclaimer: the product contained within this package may now necessarily
resemble the pictured serving suggestionunknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (02/13/89)
In a previous message, jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) wrote: >The reasons for this are a) Apple does not support the //gs in universities, >a regular hotbed for computer creativity and shareware; b) pressure to use >the Mac interface as is instead of using the text screen, mouse text, or >a scaled down version of the window manager, all of which would move faster; > c) an incomplete OS, I am not impressed with GS/OS because it does not >recognize 5.25's, repeatedly crashes, and does not support Appletalk (I >believe I need System3.2 to get the Appletalk routines) i.e. GS/OS, and no >Prodos16 yet, properly addresses the dual nature of the gs, 8-bit and 16-bit. What do you mean doesn't recognize 5.25"s? You need to use the installer program on the second disk to get that capability. unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (02/14/89)
In article <UXxQdAy00Xol81jY9W@andrew.cmu.edu> jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: > >it. The gs is more unexploited than anything else. > >The reasons for this are ... > c) an incomplete OS, I am not impressed with GS/OS because it does not >recognize 5.25's, repeatedly crashes, and does not support Appletalk (I >believe I need System3.2 to get the Appletalk routines) i.e. GS/OS, and no >Prodos16 yet, properly addresses the dual nature of the gs, 8-bit and 16-bit. - GS/OS, per se, does not recognize ANY drives. This is left to the device drivers. Included on System Disk 4.0 is an Apple 5.25" drive driver. - How is GS/OS crashing? Is it GS/OS, or an application running under it? - GS/OS does not have an AppleTalk device driver, but this simply means that you can't access a file server, notably from the Finder. However, the routines you need to access AppleTalk are included on the disk. > >To elaborate on the last point, GS/OS has great problems with my use of a >RamDisk, its Finder will not boot or recognize much of my software, it is >missing support for Appleshare and Appletalk (I need 3.2 for that), and >seems very combersome and restrictive. > >This makes programming for the GS difficult and risky. The old idea of hacking >something out under the relatively relaxed guidelines of Prodos8 becomes >impossible, while there are too many restrictions to do anything interesting; >such as toying w/ a multitasking hack. The Macintosh allows a great amount of >freedom within the borders of its window manager for hacks like MacFish, >Alternate Beeps, background rasters, menu clocks, etc. You can still do anything you want! When I say this, I address the many home programmers and hackers, not the professional developer. However, everything you have mentioned above can also be done on the GS with equal validity. In fact, I've got a friend that has installed his own MenuClock, SoftStyle published one of their own (along with a great number of other nifty hacks), and I've heard of people changing the Beep sound. >would help too. Apple's // developers should set their sights much higher than >they are. But if they don't (Apple traditionally does not write the best >software for its machines) than interested hobbiests should fill the gap. Apple doesn't write any software for their machines. Not anymore. That's what Claris is all about. All we write is the System Software, Development Systems, and the occassional HyperCard. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. --- Developer Technical Support INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "Argue for your Apple, and sure enough, it's yours" - Keith Rollin, Contusions
shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (02/14/89)
jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: > c) an incomplete OS, I am not impressed with GS/OS because it does not >recognize 5.25's, repeatedly crashes, and does not support Appletalk (I >believe I need System3.2 to get the Appletalk routines) i.e. GS/OS, and no >Prodos16 yet, properly addresses the dual nature of the gs, 8-bit and 16-bit. Beg pardon? My 5.25" disk drive works with GS/OS. The OS hasn't crashed on me. (Not that there aren't cases where it will.) No ProDOS 16? That's a bit confusing. See, GS/OS is the 16-bit version of ProDOS 16. In other words, the previous ProDOS 16 was very 8-bit in operation. UUCP: {uunet!rosevax, amdahl!bungia, chinet, killer}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com
bsherm@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Bob Sherman) (02/14/89)
in article <UXxQdAy00Xol81jY9W@andrew.cmu.edu>, jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) says: > > c) an incomplete OS, I am not impressed with GS/OS because it does not > recognize 5.25's, repeatedly crashes, and does not support Appletalk (I > believe I need System3.2 to get the Appletalk routines) i.e. GS/OS, and no > Prodos16 yet, properly addresses the dual nature of the gs, 8-bit and 16-bit. Oh, Oh, I see a misunderstandhere. GS/OS DOES recognize the 5.25 disks and drives, and GS/OS IS 16 bit prodos.. -- Internet -- bsherm%umbio@umigw.miami.edu UUCP -- {uunet!gould}!umbio!bsherm Miami's Big Apple 305-948-8000 1200 baud 24 hours 8 years online