SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") (04/06/89)
I seem to have run into a problem.
I want to make a nice, fast booting PD8 disk with my telcom programs on it so
I do not have to put up with the slow GS/OS boot. (Yes, I like GS/OS and I am
impressed at how much it can do, but Kermit only needs PROdos 8)
I tried formatting a disk, copying P8 from the system folder of my system
disk, adding basic.system, renaming P8 to PRODOS, and stuffing all of my other
telcom files on it. Sounded fine to me...
Unfortunately, it crashes when I try to run basic. Annoying; since I can't
get kermit to run without it.
It drops into the monitor at 00/0001 BRK...
What have I missed? Any clues?
Scott
SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX
sellswor@jarthur.claremont.edu
Want to see some elegant code? Take a look at Dungeon Master. Best graphics
work **I** have seen yet on the machine. A bit slow in spots, but not
unreasonably so.tsang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Donald Tsang) (04/07/89)
In article <8904060243.aa28839@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") writes: > I want to make a nice, fast booting PD8 disk with my telcom programs on it so >I do not have to put up with the slow GS/OS boot. (Yes, I like GS/OS and I am >impressed at how much it can do, but Kermit only needs PROdos 8) > I tried formatting a disk, copying P8 from the system folder of my system >disk, adding basic.system, renaming P8 to PRODOS, and stuffing all of my other >telcom files on it. Sounded fine to me... > Unfortunately, it crashes when I try to run basic. Annoying; since I can't > get kermit to run without it. You might try copying BASIC.SYSTEM from SYSTEM.DISK onto your telecom disk. This contains all of Applesoft's runtime DOS routines ('cat', 'catalog', 'open', etc). Think of it as half of what DOS 3.3 gave you. If you don't need to access Applesoft at all, you might not need BASIC.SYSTEM. But some SYS files do require it, because they didn't want to rewrite the standard (Pro)DOS commands... Donald Tsang tsang@cory.Berkeley.EDU || ...!ucbvax!cory!tsang
farrier@Apple.COM (Cary Farrier) (04/07/89)
In article <12059@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> tsang@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Donald Tsang) writes: >In article <8904060243.aa28839@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET > ("Scott, part time fuzzy") writes: >> [msg deleted] > >You might try copying BASIC.SYSTEM from SYSTEM.DISK onto your telecom disk. >This contains all of Applesoft's runtime DOS routines ('cat', 'catalog', >'open', etc). Think of it as half of what DOS 3.3 gave you. He already did that. Half of what DOS 3.3 gave you? Basic is an application and DOS 3.3 was an operating system. Besides, ProDOS gives you alot more than DOS 3.3 did. >If you don't need to access Applesoft at all, you might not need >BASIC.SYSTEM. But some SYS files do require it, because they didn't >want to rewrite the standard (Pro)DOS commands... The ProDOS commands are not contained within Basic.System. ProDOS Basic uses the ProDOS commands, but ProDOS is not located within Basic. If you want a disk that will boot into a ProDOS 8 application, do the following: 1) Start with a GS/OS system disk (yes, a gs/os disk) 2) Remove the */SYSTEM/START file 3) Remove all files of type $B3 (S16) with the ".SYS16" extension from the root directory 4) Remove all files of type $FF (SYS) with the extension ".SYSTEM" from the root directory. 5) Place your file in the root directory, it must have a type of $FF, and an extension of ".SYSTEM". If you want a basic program to be launched, then leave Basic.System in the root directory and name your basic program "Startup", and place it in the root directory, also. 6) Remove all the device drivers you dont need from the */SYSTEM/DRIVERS folder. 7) Remove all the DA's you don't need from the */SYSTEM/DESK.ACCS folder. 8) Boot this disk. With this method, I am willing to bet that you will get boot times of between 30 seconds to 1 minute. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | This message does in no way reflect the views or opinions of | | any organization. In fact, they illustrate just how | | disorganized things really are. | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") (04/07/89)
>From: Cary Farrier <farrier@APPLE.COM> >In article <12059@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> tsang@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Donald > Tsang) writes: >>In article <8904060243.aa28839@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET >> ("Scott, part time fuzzy") writes: >>> [msg deleted] >> >>You might try copying BASIC.SYSTEM from SYSTEM.DISK onto your telecom disk. >>This contains all of Applesoft's runtime DOS routines ('cat', 'catalog', >>'open', etc). Think of it as half of what DOS 3.3 gave you. >If you want a disk that will boot into a ProDOS 8 application, do the following : [instructions deleted...] > 1) Start with a GS/OS system disk (yes, a gs/os disk) > 8) Boot this disk. Slight problem with this... I am using a CMS 60m drive. Most of my boot time is spent waiting for the damn thing to get up to speed. Usually not a problem, but IF I am booting a GS/OS disk, I **must** have the critter on line. I believe one of the first things that GS/OS does is poll all of the devices to see which ones are really out there. This is especially annoying because I have one of CMS BRAIN DAMAGED SCSI CARDS that I would kill to replace!!! (lack of cash prevents this at the moment) Thier card leaks enough current to the apple while the drive is on that one can't shut off the computer and cold boot without shutting down the drive as well. Annoying!. What really bothers me is that P8 used to be an effective, working prodos file. Formerly, one could boot straight into P8 without need of anything else. Kind of nice to have the capability. Does anyone out there know if it is still possible to make a 3.5 inch, booting disk with only a PROdos file, sans ANY startup files that poll all devices? I am going to give it another look-see sometime soon. Also, does this mean that a 5.25, 140K floppy needs _all_ of the gs/os files on it to run programs that require basic.system? I _must_ have forgotten a vital file or two somewhere. Thanks, by the way, to those that have replied thus far. Many decent ideas for experimentation... Scott SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX sellswor@jarthur.claremont.edu
SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") (04/07/89)
Re the PD8 disk that crashed for no apparent reason, causing me to wonder if
Prodos 8 was somehow altered in the last release of the system disk...
It seems that my copy of basic.system got corrupted between my hard drive and
the microfloppy. Strange... A copy-over fixed everything. I don't suppose my
CS instructors would be very happy with the "hit it with a BIGGER hammer"
approach...
Scottmattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (04/08/89)
In article <8904070949.aa23025@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") writes: > I am using a CMS 60m drive. Most of my boot time is spent waiting for the >damn thing to get up to speed. Usually not a problem, but IF I am booting a >GS/OS disk, I **must** have the critter on line. I believe one of the first >things that GS/OS does is poll all of the devices to see which ones are really >out there. > After drivers are loaded, the Device Manager tries to generate drivers for all firmware that didn't get a loaded driver. This is what enables all ProDOS devices to work with GS/OS, even without loaded drivers. Currently, it sends a ProDOS STATUS call to the drive, and builds a DIB for the device only if it responds that it's actually there. If it responds otherwise, no DIB is built. (This is also what causes the Sider Multi-OS ROMs to have some GS/OS problems - the card won't return a good STATUS until someone has done a READ to it.) > What really bothers me is that P8 used to be an effective, working prodos >file. Formerly, one could boot straight into P8 without need of anything else. >Kind of nice to have the capability. Does anyone out there know if it is still >possible to make a 3.5 inch, booting disk with only a PROdos file, sans ANY >startup files that poll all devices? > This is still possible; I boot into P8 1.7 all the time on my IIe, on both 3.5" and 5.25" disks, and I did just what you did: took P8 from /SYSTEM.DISK/ SYSTEM/P8, renamed it PRODOS and put it in the root level of a floppy disk with BASIC.SYSTEM. If this is failing, the problem is somewhere else; doing this is still quite valid. I was pretty heavily involved with P8 1.6 and 1.7, and I assure you nothing that major changed in those releases. The last major change to the P8 file was the addition of PFI code for AppleShare in 1.5 (*and later*, of course, but this shouldn't be in memory at all unless you have an Apple II WorkStation card in your IIe). > I am going to give it another look-see sometime soon. Also, does this mean >that a 5.25, 140K floppy needs _all_ of the gs/os files on it to run programs >that require basic.system? I _must_ have forgotten a vital file or two >somewhere. > No no no no no. It's something else that's messing things up. > Scott > SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX > sellswor@jarthur.claremont.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that AppleLink PE: Matt DTS GEnie: AIIDTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its CompuServe: 76703,3030 | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, Usenet: mattd@apple.com | have any opinion on any subject." UUCP: (other stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------