brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) (03/31/89)
I have a II+ with an AE TransWarp and I'd like to add 3.5" media to my arsenal.
I'm planning to buy a SCSI hard disk soon, and even though one Apple 3.5 drive
and II+ controller costs HALF the price of the hard disk, I still think that I
need a higher capacity REMOVABLE media. Especially considering that 3.5"
"floppies" have finally dropped to a reasonable price. I want to make smart
purchases, though, which will allow the hardware to be used on future systems.
The SCSI HD easily satifies this criteria because it will work on any Mac or
Apple II, but I want to get a 3.5" drive that will also easily move to a new
system.
Here are my questions/thoughts:
Why should I buy a UniDisk 3.5 for my II+, when all the new II's use the
Apple 3.5 Drive? My local Apple dealer stated that he thought the UniDisk
was only 400K like the original Mac.
What is the major difference between the UniDisk interface and the SmartPort? I
have for some time tried to determine why the UniDisk and Apple 3.5 Drive can
both be plugged into the GS, but I supposedly can't use the faster Apple 3.5
Drive on my II+. I understand that the UniDisk has a uP controller which adds
another level of indirection (and delay), where the Apple 3.5 Drive is just a
simple "dumb" drive (but faster). The UniDisk controller was obviously required
since the older Apples only understood 5.25"s.
Is there a SmartPort-on-a-card for the II+ (or //e)? What would prevent someone
from building such a beast? I have "hacked" most of the hardware on my system,
so performance outweighs the "lack of service" that I would experience by
building my own hardware (besides, I love a good hardware design problem).
Given the flexibilty of ProDOS 8, its seems that now the older Apple II+ could
easily access the Apple 3.5 if the proper driver were attached to a slot. If
ProDOS requires certain values in the $CnXX range to identify a SmartPort, then
I have a ROM burner card that works in my Apple to handle boot code.
If what I want (the Apple 3.5 Drive on a II+) is already possible, then please
correct my misunderstanding. Otherwise, does anyone know which Apple
documentation I could purchase that would allow the experienced (namely, me) to
put together a SmartPort on a card that would function with the Apple 3.5 Drive
and ProDOS 8 on a II+? Where can I learn about how the SmartPort interface
works?
Brian Willoughby microsoft!brianw@uunet.UU.NET
or uw-beaver!microsoft!brianw
or just microsoft!brianwmattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (04/01/89)
In article <1190@microsoft.UUCP> brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) writes: >Why should I buy a UniDisk 3.5 for my II+, when all the new II's use the >Apple 3.5 Drive? My local Apple dealer stated that he thought the UniDisk >was only 400K like the original Mac. Your local dealer is wrong; the UniDisk 3.5 is an 800K device. We have code in UniDisk 3.5 Tech Note #4 that lets you deal with 400K disks, though. The reason the UniDisk doesn't work on IIe and II+ computers is really simple: There's no interface card for it (from Apple). The "UniDisk 3.5 Accessory Kit" or something like that is the interface card for IIe and II+ computers, and that card simply doesn't have the firmware (and maybe not the hardware) to run the Apple 3.5 Drive, mainly since the card was released two years before the drive was. >What is the major difference between the UniDisk interface and the SmartPort? I "SmartPort" usually refers to a firmware protocol developed by Apple to allow Apple II peripherals and CPUs to get along better. The term can also refer to the actual, physical port on IIc and IIgs computers. When talking about the electrical signals generated by this port, we try to use the term "SmartPort Bus" to avoid confusing people. To use the firmware interface, you need to know nothing about the hardware. And as stated above, the difference between the UniDisk interface and the SmartPort code in the IIgs and IIc Plus is that the UniDisk interface doesn't know how to talk to Apple 3.5 Drives. >If what I want (the Apple 3.5 Drive on a II+) is already possible, then please >correct my misunderstanding. Otherwise, does anyone know which Apple >documentation I could purchase that would allow the experienced (namely, me) to >put together a SmartPort on a card that would function with the Apple 3.5 Drive >and ProDOS 8 on a II+? Where can I learn about how the SmartPort interface >works? The best place to learn about this stuff is from the _Apple IIgs Firmware Reference_ and the _Apple IIgs Hardware Reference_. You'll also find quite relevant information in the UniDisk 3.5 and SmartPort Technical Notes. >Brian Willoughby microsoft!brianw@uunet.UU.NET > or uw-beaver!microsoft!brianw > or just microsoft!brianw ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that AppleLink PE: Matt DTS GEnie: AIIDTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its CompuServe: 76703,3030 | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, Usenet: mattd@apple.com | have any opinion on any subject." UUCP: (other stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ralphw@ius3.ius.cs.cmu.edu (Ralph Hyre) (04/06/89)
In article <28208@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >In article <1190@microsoft.UUCP> brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) writes: >The reason the UniDisk doesn't work on IIe and II+ computers is really simple: >There's no interface card for it (from Apple). The ... >... card simply doesn't have the firmware (and maybe not the hardware) >to run the Apple 3.5 Drive, mainly since the card was released two years before >the drive was. 400 and 800K Mac Drives were around before this, of course, but Apple apparently hadn't fully committed to the maximal peripheral sharing strategy yet. I think that a software solution exists, though. The Uni 3.5 must have all of the hardware to talk to 'bare' 3.5 drives (it has an IWM and even a 6502 inside!) Has anyone out there actually used the code downloading facilities to shove code into the UniDisk itself that could talk to daisy-chained Apple 3.5s? (there is 32K of RAM in there to play with.) I suppose the first program I write for the UniDisk will be something that sends a listing of the ROM contents back down the smartport, so I can better understand what's going on:-) If I can program the controller sufficiently, I could throw away my Disk ][ controller cards and hang everything of of my UniDisk 3.5. Then I could use interrupts and multitask and do everything else that these zlottin' 5.25 drives hamper. (MIDI data collection is one item.) I assume that the Smartport firmware is interruptable, reentrant, and all that. I can depend on the co-processor in the Uni 3.5 to shuffle the nibbles around and communicate with the Apple ][. One more thing for my ever-expanding TODO list. BTW, How can I get the UniDisk 3.5 Tech Notes? -- - Ralph W. Hyre, Jr. Internet: ralphw@{ius{3,2,1}.,}cs.cmu.edu Phone:(412) CMU-BUGS Amateur Packet Radio: N3FGW@W2XO, or c/o W3VC, CMU Radio Club, Pittsburgh, PA "You can do what you want with my computer, but leave me alone!8-)" --
blackman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Scott Michael Blackman) (04/06/89)
In article <4661@pt.cs.cmu.edu> ralphw@ius3.ius.cs.cmu.edu (Ralph Hyre) writes: >I suppose the >first program I write for the UniDisk will be something that sends a >listing of the ROM contents back down the smartport, so I can better >understand what's going on:-) If anyone's interested, I did write just such a program a while back. I can upload the program (a real quickie, if I must say so), and the UniDisk ROM listing to comp.binaries and/or Apple2-l. Send me mail and tell me what to do. >BTW, How can I get the UniDisk 3.5 Tech Notes? You can get the Tech Notes from a number of places -- if you can FTP, there are the archives at 128.163.128.6, 35.1.1.43, and husc6.harvard.edu, or there's Apple2-L (I think they still have the Technotes). > - Ralph W. Hyre, Jr. >Internet: ralphw@{ius{3,2,1}.,}cs.cmu.edu Phone:(412) CMU-BUGS >Amateur Packet Radio: N3FGW@W2XO, or c/o W3VC, CMU Radio Club, Pittsburgh, PA >"You can do what you want with my computer, but leave me alone!8-)" -- Scott "WhiteWoman" Blackman ------------------ ARPA: blackman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU UUCP: {allegra}!princeton!(phoenix|pucc)!blackman BITNET: blackman@phoenix.UUCP, blackman@PUCC -- -- Scott "WhiteWoman" Blackman -------------------------------------------- Thinking of ARPA: blackman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU a UUCP: {allegra}!princeton!(phoenix|pucc)!blackman graphic BITNET: blackman@phoenix.UUCP, blackman@PUCC
shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (04/09/89)
ralphw@ius3.ius.cs.cmu.edu (Ralph Hyre) writes: >In article <28208@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >>In article <1190@microsoft.UUCP> brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) writes: >>The reason the UniDisk doesn't work on IIe and II+ computers is really simple: >>There's no interface card for it (from Apple). The ... >>... card simply doesn't have the firmware (and maybe not the hardware) >>to run the Apple 3.5 Drive, mainly since the card was released two years before >>the drive was. >400 and 800K Mac Drives were around before this, of course, but Apple >apparently hadn't fully committed to the maximal peripheral sharing strategy >yet. > >I think that a software solution exists, though. Beg pardon? I didn't notice the start of this conversation, but it seems that the terms "UniDisk" and "Apple 3.5" are being confused. In particular, the statement "The reason the UniDisk doesn't work on the IIe and II+ computers is really simple..." is confusing, since I had two UniDisk 3.5 drives hooked up to my old Apple //e, using an interface card from Apple. I agree with the statement that the "...card simply doesn't have the firmware ... to run the Apple 3.5 Drive", however. UUCP: {uunet!rosevax, amdahl!bungia, chinet, killer}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com
edward@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Edward Wang) (04/09/89)
Actually, it would be nice that someone explain what a UniDisk is. I just bought a IIc Plus, which comes with a 800kb drive. In what ways is a UniDisk different? The sales brochure that came with the machine doesn't explain, which brings up another point: whatever happened to computers that come with a complete set of manuals? I found out the hard way that I have to spend money to get real manuals, instead of the Mickey Mouse ones that came with the IIc.